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Mila
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Topic: Women in History Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 17:22 |
W O M E N I N H I S T O R Y
Joan of Arc - Catherine the Great - Cleopatra - Katarina Velika
The
women whose lives are remembered beyond their years and become a part
of the world's recorded history seem to become famous, or infamous, for
many of the same reasons as men.
Katarina Velika of Bosnia, for example, was a warrior Queen whose quest
to defend the Bosnian capital from Ottoman forces eventually led to her
Roman Catholic Sainthood. Catherine the Great of Russia, Cleopatra of
Egypt, and Joan of Arc are also all famous for feats that are, in many
ways, masculine.
There are women - Helena of Troy, Fata Osmanovic of Travnik, Andzelina
Clockselic of Sarajevo - who become famous, whose names are remembered,
because of their feminine qualities. Women whose eyes, lips, and bodies
brought men to the brink of war, and often farther.
In modern times, women have become famous for a wide variety of reasons
- many of them distinctly feminine. For example, Mama Teresa of
Albania, who achieved fame through her service to those in need in
India.
Which type of woman do you believe is most often remembered in the course of history?
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Komnenos
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Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 17:54 |
Good question. Rememberd by whom?
Just came back from watching a BBC drama on Englands probably greatest female ruler, ( not counting the current one) Elizabeth I, who one can credit with having laid the foundations to the British Empire. A truly remarkable woman, one of the very few that ruled entirely on her own account, and against all the odds survived against internal and external enemies , a Spanish invasion and numerous plots against her life. Her own woman, so to speak.
And what does the BBC call the series?
"The Virgin Queen", of course, as if the most important aspect of her life was the fact that she never got married and apparently was celibate throughout her life. Predictable, but sad.
History is written by men, and what do men remember most about women?
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 18:07 |
I think it can depend on the culture. Some cultures see women as nothing more than the weaker half of humanity and consequently from Eve through to the wives of a number of former Balkan communist leaders they are seen as an insidious evil.
The paradox of women as leaders is the fact that once in power they are often as ruthless and violent as men. They usually do not live up to the stereotype associated with their gender.
Depending on your culture they could be any of the above options. In some cultures they are whores, in others they play their role as loving and dutiful relatives and in yet others as a heroic mother figure doing all in their power for their child (nation).
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Mila
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Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 18:12 |
Komnenos, I have a sort of infatuation with Elizabeth I as well.
Although, I don't believe for a moment that she remained a virgin. I
imagine she kept a lover, possibly female given her public declarations
of being a virgin.
Originally posted by Constantine XI
The paradox of women as leaders is the fact that
once in power they are often as ruthless and violent as men. They
usually do not live up to the stereotype associated with their
gender. |
I agree completely, however - I think that is because of the culture.
Any other type of woman, in a patriarchial society, wouldn't have much
of a chance to become ruler. It is through their ruthless and violent
nature that they are capable of reaching the top, while millions of
women who would fit the stereotype of their gender are kept in the
lower ranks or out of the leadership altogether.
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Maju
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Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 18:53 |
Curiously I just posted on reviewing the front page of AE to include some women.
I think that history remember women when they have been strongly
associated to power. In this sense, queens and other rulers are the
most famous ones, at least by number: Hatshepshut, Cleopatra, Isabella
of Castile, Elizabeth I, Catherine the Great, Marie-Therese of Austria
are all remembered as equals to their contemporaneous rulers of male
gender.
Next surely are the many regents that have supplied their incapable
husbands or too young sons. Next are the consort queens and other women
behind the throne, specially when they showed some outstanding activity
of any kind.
Then there are a few other cathegories: heroines as Joan d'Arc are not
very frequent but when they exist they are also remembered as much or
more as their male counterparts. But there are many "cultural" women,
since Madam Curie to Emily Bronte, though most are relatively modern.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Paul
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Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 19:22 |
I voted for Scarlet Women,
Who's had the most movies made about them Elizabeth of Cleopatra? Close, but I'd go for Cleo.
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Dawn
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Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 00:51 |
Originally posted by Mila
Komnenos, I have a sort of infatuation with Elizabeth I as well. Although, I don't believe for a moment that she remained a virgin. I imagine she kept a lover, possibly female given her public declarations of being a virgin.
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I too went through a period that I could not read enough about her. It has been suggested by more than one person that Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester was her lover for years. I think tha title "Virgin Queen" refers more to her unmarried state rather than her physical one. As at that time all first time brides where assumed to be virgins and proof was often faked so most where regardless of the facts of the situation.
Maju's point that history remembers those close to power are remembered is valid. Those in power are close to the only ones remembered in the past long gone. Culture plays a great role as well. I think if culture (in the past) had promoted women in power the way it did men.the roles we are discussing would be reversed. The insuremountable obsticles that one must overcome to gain power plus break cultural norms would be more than most people male or female could achive.
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gcle2003
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Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 07:31 |
I think there is a tendency for people here to remember rulers and warriors and politically powerful people in general, because that's closest to what people here are interested in.
In the public at large, at least the English-speaking world, surely Florence Nightingale and Jane Austen, say, would be better known than pretty well anyone mentioned here except probably Elizabeth I, Cleopatra and Helen. And what about Pocahontas? Or even Mata Hari? Or Nell Gwynn? Or Nefertiti?
I'd guess the average English-speaker would recognise all those names (even if they knew nothing much about the real persons) ahead of, say, Catherine the Great.
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Jay.
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Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 15:59 |
I voted Policitian, etc...especially Kim Cambell, Canada's first female Prime Minister
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Mila
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Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 16:04 |
I found a nice quote about this.
"Men are remembered only for conquering literally, or metaphorically, other men - men who were previously considered great in their own right. Unfortunately, women are only remembered for the same thing."
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QueenCleopatra
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Posted: 13-Apr-2006 at 08:20 |
The women who are remembered are those who, for whatever reason, had the power to make men fall at their feet. They are remembered because for many cultures throughout the world women are the lesser sex. We have constantly been repressed and put down by men. The women History remembers are the ones that looked men in the eye, in whatever way, and said we are not weak.
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Her Royal Highness , lady of the Two Lands, High Priestess of Thebes, Beloved of Isis , Cleopatra , Oueen of the Nile
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