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tadamson
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Topic: Plz, explain this map? Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 10:40 |
Timur was a Turk
He never claimed to be Mongol and as such never took the title
Khan. He was decended from the local Barlas 'tribe' who were in
turn descended from a unit of the Mongol army commanded by a member of
the Mongol Barlas tribe and not directly related to earlier tribe of
the same name.
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rgds.
Tom..
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Temujin
King
Sirdar Bahadur
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Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 14:59 |
Timur was a Turkified Mongol, like most tribes in todays western Steppe.
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 20:29 |
(After doing much investigating)
Ok, it appears that Timur wasn't descendent from Chatagaghi but is a mongol .
"Timur, was born 8th April
1336 in Kesh near Samarkand. Member of turkicized Barlas tribe, a Mongol
subgroup that had settled in Transoxonia after taking part in Genghis Khan's
son Jagatai's campaigns in that region."http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5246/Timur.html
Timur's empire is certainly considered a Mongol Empire.
Originally posted by tadamson
He never claimed to be Mongol and as such never took the title
Khan.
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The Khan of Khazar
the Khan of Bulgaria
Sher Shah Khan,
Sultan Sulieman Khan (aka Sulieman the Magnificent)
Imran Khan
Khan is turkic too and predates mongol conquests.
Edited by Omar al Hashim
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Guests
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Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 23:14 |
just one question if your mongol empire was really great and mongols were superiors to others why they turkified ? and also can u explain to me how can you turkifiy entire nation in certain areas ? if babur shah was a turkified mongol and humayun shah was a persified turkified mongol and his sons was indianified persified turkified mongol isnt it really absurd what you are trying to point for timur he was just trying to relate himself with the royal blood to impose his authority over chatait turks which we can call eastern turks and if you are saying timurs empire was a mongol empire than safavid were persians ottomans are mostly arabs please be realistic and with all due respect please try not to show your inferiority complex every nation in this world had their times as superiors to one another, if you can say king Abdullah of jordan is not arab becouse he has turkish blood from his ancestors than we can discuss timurs nationality or if you can explain why greeks and serbians wrent turkified as mongols we can talk about turan
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mamikon
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Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 23:53 |
what does "Turkified" mean anyway? Turks did not settle in those
times...are you saying they travelled with Turks? and thus became on of
those travellers?
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gok_toruk
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Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 01:15 |
Most Russian, Central Asian and Iranian historians believe that Teymir was a Turk originally. Now, about his 'Mongolship', in fact, it is said that he held his 'family tree' which dated him back to Chengiz Khan Mongols. Anyhow, his mother tongue was Turkic. He was brought up among Turks. And most historians who have distinguished Turks from Mongols say Teymir was a Turk rather than a Mongol. Take care...
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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gok_toruk
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Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 01:17 |
By the way Temujin, could you tell me of 5 originally Mongolian tribes who are Turkified nowadays in western steppes?
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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tadamson
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Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 05:48 |
The term Turkified is normally used by historians to cover periods
following Mongol adoption of many items of 'Turkic' culture. Much
of this was following their contact with the sophisticated oasis
settlements in Central Asia (particuarly those uinder Uighir
control). As the expansion of the Mongol 'Empire' was primaraly
by adsorption of other steppe peoples and the leadership positivly
encouraged the adoption of 'good' things from other cultures, Turkic
culture was a significant influence (along with Tibetan and Chinese
items. There are lots of fascinating studies on this area,
including several on the massive increace in variety of foods, cooking,
rescipies etc across Asia at this time.
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rgds.
Tom..
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Arjun
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Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 13:07 |
Moghuls ( Chaghtai Turks) cannot be called Mongols as such. Thus India cannot be included in the mongol empire. There is another thread running for this Mongol/Turk confusion.
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From the desert lands of Rajasthan
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Turkoglu
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Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 16:17 |
Timur was Turk
from Barlas Tribe
look at the poems that he wrote
in Turkish:
"Biz ki, Muluk-i Turan, Emir-i Turkistanız",
"Biz ki Turk oglu Turkuz" ve "Biz ki, milletlerin en kadimi ve en ulusu
Trkn basbuguyuz"
in English:
We are the Country of Turan, Commander of Turkistan, We are the son of
Turks, and we are most ancient and gratest nation's, Turk's Commander!
this was the actually poem that Timur wrote
he used we in the meaning of I
By the way the word Basbug means
Commander and Presindent of the nation.
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merced12
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Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 16:26 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Originally posted by deniztc1983
yea didnt a mongal khan built the tac maal for his wife or something ... i think his name was cihan or something like that
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Shah Jehan who built the Taj Mahal was Humayuns great grandson. So yes his was a mongol although extensive Indianised by that time.
Originally posted by barbar
No, Moghul empire was established and ruled by Turkic people. The Great emperor Babur clearly mentioned in his book " Baburname" that they were Turkic. So there shouldn't be any further discussion on this.
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Babur always liked to point out his heritage, and his goal and the goal of all his decendents was always to recapture Timur's Empire. I think it was Jehanghir who held his court in Kabul instead of Delhi for a period to emphasise this. Although I haven't read tuskey babury myself, my father has and says that Babur is very much a mongol. |
omar, pakistan cruise missile named by babur
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http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
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