Mali & America

Its documented, but not proven, is all Im saying, Ill beleive it if I can see what kind of ship supposedly did this.

Actually, according to what I read, there was a frist expedition by the Mali but they dissapeared never to be heard from again, probably died at sea if they existed at all.

hahaha, sounds like someones been reading too much ivan van sertima...

the gold of the native american treasures was procured by the indians themselves. mining was not unknown to indians, even the least advanced among them (the chippewas and other indians had been mining copper in michigan's u.p. for thousands of years) and as for the arab records, id think them not much more accurate than those of the europeans of the time. sure they had compasses and more advanced navigation techniques but i doubt theyd know much about the atlantic. if arabs sailed the atlantic youd have had the canary islands and the azores as muslims sultanates by the time the spanish had arrived.

The conspiracy theories stem in fact from allegations that the Olmec language and the mendinke languages of West Africa (who were the people to later on found the kingdom of Mali) are apparently related. Also, the Olmec heads found in Africa appear to have black features.

This has given rise to theories that ancestors of the Mali people visited and colonized Mexico around 2500 years ago. I don't know how accurate these allegations are, due to the difficulty inherent in reconstituting a language (Olmec) which was extinct 2000 years ago and for which we don't have a Rosetta stone of sorts.

Jalisco Lancer, I don't think that all these conspiracy theories aim to take away credit from the native american civilizations. Rather it is a case of national pride or simple "what-if" curiosity that leads many people to investigate possible ancient connections between the old and the new world. It certainly would reflect quite well on an ancient civilization to have been able to cross the Atlantic, or the Pacific, and give their descendants boasting rights.

Also, in the Americas, there are some things that may suggest such an ancient connection with Old world civilizations. The legends of Quetzalcoatl/Viracocha/Kukulkan, who supposedly were white, the black-featured Olmec heads, the (accidental) resemblance between Mexican and Egyptian pyramids, they all hint towards the possibility of such a connection. Especially for people who don't know much about history.

While most theories are pure speculation and utter nonsense, it is not entirely out of the question that some very limited contact may have existed before Columbus and the vikings. In all likelyhood, if anything of the sort took place, it was probably very limited and accidental, such as a ship getting carried by a storm and ending up stranded on the other side of the Atlantic. Even if it did happen, the impact of this supposed contact between the 2 civilizations was minimal.

The question of metalurgical disparity, ie no metals other than gold and silver being worked in the Americas, certainly rules out any extensive contact with Europe, Asia or Africa. On the other hand, limited, accidental contact is not excluded, since supposed visitors would not neccesarily have any knowledge themselves of metal-working, even if their civilization of origin did.

As for the other main knock against ancient mariners crossing the Atlantic, Thor Heyerdal has shown that great distances can be crossed with very primitive boats, especially given the seasonal trade winds.