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Topic ClosedHow did the Tuerks converted to Islam?

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: How did the Tuerks converted to Islam?
    Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 06:52

Interesting, and where were the Turks in 3000BC?

The origins of Turks are related with the Andronovo culture, the men who lived btw Tenri mountains and Altays in Central Asia 2000 years BC.

Still doing what they always do, being nomadic wonderers..

Nomads dont wonder, they proceed. But dreamers just wonder, wonder that they live in 2000 years past.

You guys are being modest again. I would say that Turkish history is at least 10000 years old. Some day they may even discover that Neanderthal were Turkic specking turanoids

And homo-erectus was an Aryan, a Zoroastrian and a semi-God right?

wasn't the Ottoman one of the strongest empires turks had?????

In many terms it was. No doubt Islamic civilization helped us to improve ours by synthesizing it. But it didnt create a new one.

Of course our origins are nonMongolian, like Greeks' is non-Roman. You mix the terms Mongolian and Mongoloid again. And Genghis Khan was a Mongol, not Turk, so not our ancestor.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 07:01
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

wasn't the Ottoman one of the strongest empires turks had?????

In many terms it was. No doubt Islamic civilization helped us to improve ours by synthesizing it. But it didnt create a new one.

Just as a sidenote, Muslim religion defined the Ottoman empire, as it provided it with moral ground for expansion (jihad), acted as the fiber on which the various elements of the empire were connected upon, as well as served as the basis for its administrational structure. So the cornerstone of the empire itself, was the Muslim religion.

 

The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 07:09

No it wasnt. Ottomans administration was inherited from three elements: Seljuks-Turkic traditions, Abbasids-Islamic traditions and Byzanthines-Roman traditions.

So Ottomans were a Turkish based Islamic Roman Empire. But Islam didnt shape their civilization. Even their architecure, their flag, their costumes and their believs (Naqshibendi-Bektashi) dont fit the general Islamic rules or traditions.

Islam was the image of Ottoman Empire, it looked like the purpose, but it was just the tool to reach the purpose. Istanbul during the Ottoman reign didnt have human views that we can witness in today's Tehran. Islam wasnt such a heavy ruler element for the rulers and elite society.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 21:53

Oguzoglu, lets say Sassanid-Abbasid-Islamic state organization.

Our state organization is a form of Sassanid, Ilber Ortayli starts his book dsecribing Ottoman State organization with Sassanid Shahdom Chapter.

Azimuth is in some sense right, greatest empire a Turk founded was Ottoman Empire. But yes, not Islam but the Persian-Islamic civilization helped us, togerther with the Chinese civilization. First Sogdian and chinese, than Persian and Islamic civilization added, than the Greco-Roman. LOL.

But not everytime Islam defined Ottoman Empire, it was also defined by traditions, like every empire did.

The civil way of life started before Islam, and accelerated with the Seljuks.

Though I can not agree with the Mongol issues , LOL. I do not say we are same 100% percent , hahahahahaha.  And all those tribes are not the same with 100%.

Anyway, I have discussed them in our new forum. Hehehehehe... Quoted some from Urgunge Onon, that some tribes from Turkic group, Kereyids and Naimans spoke a language akin of Mongol tribe.

Onon, the one authority in Mongol history, names each tribe and people groups with their names, does not divide them into two groups.

Cengiz, keep it calm mate, Azimuth is our nice friend .

Take care dudes,

Memo



Edited by HulaguHan
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 09:39

But Memo,

Ottoman governmental traditions were certainly heavily based on the past Seljuk ones and it still kept its number one Turkic element, the empire belonging to the family of padishah, khan, sultan whatever. Fatih changed that into the "brother killing" method but most of the government traditions still continued to keep their original Turkic elements, such as the systems of "sancakbeylik", "beylerbeyilik" etc.

As I said before, the three main elements in Ottoman governing traditions: Seljuks-Turkic methods, Abbasids-Islamic methods and Romans-Byzanthine methods. These formed the Ottoman Empire.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 10:09

Yes sure mate

I think yes, I should mention strongly Turks just upgraded them selves. IT is true Ottomans had many issues coming from the Hunnic days.

Persian, Chinese, Abbasid, Greek, Roman elements were just addition.

But I think it should be considered as flexibility and agilability, not assimilation.

We called Vezir, Sadrazam but we also considered Emperor as the shadow of god and the blood of emperor family to be sacred. This for instance Turkick tradition.

And our religion tradition also has many Turkic elements too.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2005 at 20:18

Oh I was mistaken. Turks who formed Ghaznawid Sultanate was not forcibly converted by Persians. No harm was done to them. I checked my only source about it again. Grousset tells that after embracing islam, the Turkic clans immigrated to Persian Emirate and some served in this empire. But I know, Seljuks were brought to Bukhara in 985 and most of them were not muslim. Probably, that was a maneuvre for the last chance against the Qarakhanid Turks.

Anyway, Qarakhanid Turks crashed Samanid Emirate.

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