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Caspian Sea
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Alborz View Drop Down
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Posts: 256 		  Quote Alborz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Caspian Sea
    Posted: 29-Dec-2005 at 07:28

I'm going to be brief because my info is rusty. I just want to get this topic started, hopefully others will contribute.

Capsian Sea:

The Name: well first of all led me just begin by citing what other nations refer to the lake;

Iranians: In persian we call it "Daryaye Khazar", or "Daryaye Mazandaran". Darya means sea, Daryaye means Sea of. "Kazar" or "Mazandaran" is the name we use for Caspian, though neither of these 3 are of the same origins.

I believe the Turks and perhaps arabs call it Khazar too.

As you know Khazar is for the historic Jewish Turkic peoples that made an empire to the North of the great Lake, from then on the sea was called by their name.

"Mazandaran" is the name sometimes used by Iranians, Mazandaran is a province of Iran south of Caspian Sea. It is the new version of the ancient name "Sea of Hyrcania", I believe. Before the sea was called Capsian or Khazar, it was called sea of Hyrcania by Iranians and perhaps westerners.

Okay so thats our names and roots. As for English and western, I believe that the name "Caspian" is drived from a Scythian tribe name "Kasb". Now I am not certainly sure but I hope others will varify or else. I have also heard that "kasp/kasb" was a turkic tribe. but that was from a turkish source, and I dont trust anything coming from a Turkish source, anymore.

So please all contribute not just about the name but about full history. Thanx. Sorry for no sources.



Edited by Alborz
"Who so shall worship Ahura Mazda, divine blessing will be upon him, both while living and when dead" Darius The Great
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2005 at 08:00
You know in south of Caspian Sea there is also an Iranian province which was called Kaspian province in the Sassanid period and now Kazvin (arabicized version) province.
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Alparslan View Drop Down
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Posts: 517 		  Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2005 at 14:11
Originally posted by Alborz

Iranians: In persian we call it "Daryaye Khazar", or "Daryaye Mazandaran". Darya means sea, Daryaye means Sea of. "Kazar" or "Mazandaran" is the name we use for Caspian, though neither of these 3 are of the same origins.

I believe the Turks and perhaps arabs call it Khazar too.

As you know Khazar is for the historic Jewish Turkic peoples that made an empire to the North of the great Lake, from then on the sea was called by their name.

Okay so thats our names and roots. As for English and western, I believe that the name "Caspian" is drived from a Scythian tribe name "Kasb". Now I am not certainly sure but I hope others will varify or else. I have also heard that "kasp/kasb" was a turkic tribe. but that was from a turkish source, and I dont trust anything coming from a Turkish source, anymore.

I have never heard about a Turkish tribe called Kasb.

But Khazars were a Turkic tribe; no need to find Turkic ethimology in the word Caspian.

It is also obvious that the root of the word Azer - baycan and Azeri came from the same root instead of an Iranic ethimology such Atrapatan or something like this.

Azeri means Azmen in Turkish. The Turkic tribe names such as Ok - uz (Oghuz), Guzz, Uz-bek, Kaz - ak, Kırg - uz (Kyrgız) (Forty uz), Az - er (Azer)are coming from the same root; Uz / Az.

Consequently Turks call this sea as Hazar Denizi; Sea of Hazar.

 
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Sharrukin View Drop Down
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Posts: 1314 		  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2005 at 20:59

The earliest term the Greeks used was in fact Kaspien thalassan, "Caspian Sea" (Herod. Book 1.202.4; Book 4.40).  It was named for a people called the Caspians.  According to Herodotus, the Caspians were located in two different tributary districts (nomoi).  In one (Herod. 3.92), they were associated with other tribes called Pausicae, Pantimathi, and Daritae.  These are otherwise unknown.  The other district has the Caspians associated with Sacae.  Old Persian inscriptions do not seem to mention them, although some consider the the Persian "land" of Akaufachiya, "table-land" as perhaps "Caspia". 

Later Greek sources know of the Caspians as inhabiting the westernmost "circuit" of the Caspian Sea.  According to Strabo:

"and in a circuit round the [Caspian] sea after the Hyrcanians one comes to the Amardi, Anariacae, Cadusii, Albani, Caspii, Vitii, and perhaps also other peoples, until one reaches the Scythians;"  (Book 11.8.8)

According to this passage, the Caspians were neighbors to the Albani which we know were near or in the Caucasus Mts.  Its interesting that Strabo called the Caucasus Mts. the "Caspian Mts".  He describes their customes as similar to that of the Scythians and Bactrians, but he never says explicitly that they were Scythians or similar to Scythians, and neither does Herodotus.  Their district was called Kaspiane and was in the time of Strabo under Albanian rule:

"To the country of the Albanians belongs also the territory called Caspiane, which was named after the Caspian tribe, as was also the sea;"  (Book 11.4.5) 

If there was an Avestan equivalent to 'Caspian sea' it may have been the term Vouru-kasha, "broad inlets" or "wide bays" and described as vraya, "sea", hence "vraya vouru kasha". 

http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Zarathushtri an/avestan_geography.htm

Two rivers, the Rangha and Vanghuvi Daitya flow from it.  The Vanghuvi Daitya was otherwise known as the Oxus, and we know that a branch of the Oxus flowed from the Caspian.  It may well be that the origin of the name "Caspian" may not have lain with the name of the tribe but as a descriptive, from kasha of Avestan sources.
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