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Medieval Chivalry. An evolution of ancient Gallic value of war?

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TheodoreFelix View Drop Down
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  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Medieval Chivalry. An evolution of ancient Gallic value of war?
    Posted: 09-Dec-2005 at 13:48
In just about every text where a Roman army is facing a Gallic or Germanic army they go over the fact that unlike the ROmans, who believed in men working as units, the barbarians practiced an ideology that put value on individual heroism, bravery and strength rather then a unified one. Could this have been the primative form into what later became the ideology of chivalry? These ancient warfare values mixed with christian romanticism?

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Constantine XI View Drop Down
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2005 at 17:26

The reason we see such battle traits in these two people is that they both belonged to a tribal organisation, whose head was typically a warrior figure. The ancient Germans who went volkerwunderung possessed both an individualistic fighting spirit and a collective form of fighting organisation. The Germans recorded by Tacitus were not so well organised, but hundreds of years of contact with the Romans had changed that. By the time of the fall of West Rome, Germanic and Gallic soldiers were proficient group fighters. Individualism no longer quite cut it.

Ultimately, chivalry was a military ideology which emerged in the midst of a feudal society with poor central government power that was exposed to continuous and unpredictable outside attack. Chivalry was a product of the society and environment it emerged in, rather than a continuation of a form of battle fervour that had been abandoned in favour of better organisation hundreds of years previously.

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pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2005 at 17:33
Originally posted by Constantine XI

The reason we see such battle traits in these two people is that they both belonged to a tribal organisation, whose head was typically a warrior figure. The ancient Germans who went volkerwunderung possessed both an individualistic fighting spirit and a collective form of fighting organisation. The Germans recorded by Tacitus were not so well organised, but hundreds of years of contact with the Romans had changed that. By the time of the fall of West Rome, Germanic and Gallic soldiers were proficient group fighters. Individualism no longer quite cut it.

Ultimately, chivalry was a military ideology which emerged in the midst of a feudal society with poor central government power that was exposed to continuous and unpredictable outside attack. Chivalry was a product of the society and environment it emerged in, rather than a continuation of a form of battle fervour that had been abandoned in favour of better organisation hundreds of years previously.

Both good observations, but I agree with Constantine.  Chivalry arose as a byproduct of feudalism and feudal institutions.  That social organization model had moved on well beyond tribalism.

 



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