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Maju
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Topic: Kosovo: 1998 - 2005 Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 22:38 |
Originally posted by vulkan02
Im not just talking about the Arvanites here Maju. If you also include
the Albanians that have emigrated recently which are about 500,000 that
number is much higher than Greeks living in Albania. |
Recnt inmigrants are just that: inmigrants. They are looking for jobs
and they should never be considered minorities but foreigners.
Hopefully they will eventually integrate with the locals.
I highly doubt the Greek population is 3% of Albanian population for two major reasons.
1. The Greek government inflates these figures highly because they want
to show that southern Albania(norther epirus) is a land that is
inhabited mostly by citizens with Greek origin. The true figure right
now is probably no more that 20,000.
2. Even if it was this much at some point in recent history, most of
these people have probably left Albania in the last 15 years. If muslim
Albanians can get in and be able to receive a decent treatment by
changing names it would make sense that ethnic Greeks are treated much
better than that.
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It may be. The only available source seems to be the CIA factbook which is often innacurate, specially in ethnic issues.
Yet, the same CIA factbook states that Albania is not a Muslim country
but an agnostic one, with 60% of its population self-declaring atheist
or agnostic. This makes Albania the most spiritualy developed nation of
all Europe in my eyes.
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vulkan02
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Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 23:32 |
Not all of them are immigrants... those who converted to orthodox faith
and changed names, which is about half i would say probably got their
papers.
From CIA The World Factbook:
Religions:
Muslim 70%, Albanian Orthodox 20%, Roman Catholic 10%
note:
percentages are estimates; there are no available current statistics on
religious affiliation; all mosques and churches were closed in 1967 and
religious observances prohibited; in November 1990, Albania began
allowing private religious practice
The religious percentage estimates were first taken during King Zog's time in the 1930's so their validity is at least minimal.
Im guessing the last statement you made was not meant to be a sarcastic
one and I myslef am not ashamed at all if more than half of my
country's citizens are truly agnostics or atheits.
Communism wasn't so bad for us then, it got rid of all that nonsense haha.
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The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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Maju
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Posted: 11-Dec-2005 at 01:58 |
I misunderstood the original Wikipedia article. It is not just a copy of CIA factbook but just some sections are based on it. Wikipedia says that:
Obviously the author seems to have data from unoffcial polls that show
that most Albanians aren't religious. The data of CIA is from pre-1943
situation.
I included the ethnic data as well.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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vulkan02
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Posted: 11-Dec-2005 at 12:55 |
Hmm a 60% agnostic/atheist population is too good to be true...I doubt it though.
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The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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Spartakus
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Posted: 11-Dec-2005 at 13:02 |
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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sdavidr
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Posted: 11-Dec-2005 at 15:32 |
Spartakus, I think it was clear that I was talking about minorities in Hellas.
Originally posted by Maju
Well, 18% is not any minority: it is an important ethnic segment. A
minority is something under maybe 5%. | ->This post is from an other closed thread but related to this one.I'll answer Maju and Spartakus at the same time using this definition. source: wikipediaMinority"The definition of a minority group can vary, depending on specific context, but generally refers to either a sub-group that does not form either a majority or a plurality of the total population, or a group that, while not necessarily a numerical minority, is disadvantaged or otherwise has less power (whether political or economic) than a dominant group"
Edited by sdavidr
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Posted: 11-Dec-2005 at 19:12 |
Originally posted by vulkan02
Hmm a 60% agnostic/atheist population is too good to be true...I doubt it though.
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It is possible though
IIRC Czechia* has an about 50% non religious population. And the
communist rule in Albania was much much harsher than in Czechia.
*yes, I know it's called Czech Republic, but Czechia is shorter and makes more sense
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TheodoreFelix
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Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 11:34 |
The atheism was utterly and completely placed in society. So much so that people are alien to christian and islamic beliefs. Christianity I would say is on the rise in the ROA(republic of Albania) with islamic slowly but surely declining, within 100 years I would say to be the vast majority of the country. Like my granfather said "its not that we didnt believe in god, we just didnt go to church or practice the faith". So the majority I would say are agnostic and a minority of atheists. But in general, I would make a distinction between the two since many would find insult at being called faithless entirely. My mom for instance is of Orthodox heritage, but she is so alien to the culture and history of it that when she cannot find an orthdox one, she heads to a catholic church or some other one saying "its all the same christ anyway".
As for the Greek minority. It was at one point 3% of the country but today I would say its far less. The massive exodus that occured in the early 90 and since then.
Maju, I would not go by wiki for this since there are many propagandists whom I gave up arguing with since they were more intent on simply reverting to show what they wanted to show, whether they gave evidence or not. Infact, this is the case with all northern epirus issues, main one being Anathenea.
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Mila
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Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 11:54 |
I found Albania to be a mostly Muslim country, but
certainly not 80 per cent as they claim.
It seems Orthodox Albanians are fairly
geographically centered in certain locations - while
Catholics are more unevenly spread out, all on a
base that is Islamic and athiest.
I would say, though, that Islam definitely feels to be
the..."natural" religion in Albania. If I meet an
Albanian, I assume Islamic at first and then if they're
Catholic or Orthodox, its sort of novelty.
It's really interesting to see how outsiders handle
these Kosovo questions though, isn't it Iskander?
THey bring up things we'd never bring up.
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Maju
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Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 12:06 |
I couldn't find any other sources. And the page wasn't disputed - you
know: when a topic is polemic often it has a warning on top suggesting
to take a look at the discussion page for the criss-cross of
opinions.
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vulkan02
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Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 20:29 |
Islam is the major religion of Albania however it is practiced much
less intensively as it is in other Islamic nations like in the middle
east... and maybe Bosnia. It has had a revival during the overthrow of
communism and a lot of people have gotten more religious but also a lot
of others have lost their belief in either Christianity or Islam.
I remember as a kid i used to go to the local orthodox church
with my friends some of whom were muslim. This was more of a social
gathering event rather than a religious observation. I think it was the
same for most of the other people going there, mostly just to meet each
other and to respect tradition rather than be fearful of God for
missing that sunny Sunday.
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The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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