Visigothic Spain

Originally posted by Aragones Your welcome Maju. I see you are using the old nomenclature of dna haplogroups.The new and most updated studies about european groups are called, R1b, R1a, I, your neolithic J, J2, E3b...all this groups cover about 95% of all europeans.

I know. It's just to simplify, as the older nomenclature is better know (because several maps with cakes have been posted in this forum: it's very visual). Basically we can say that +/- R1a is Hg1 (plus Hg22), I is Hg2 and R1b is Hg3 (this one matches exactly). These three are the most important ones and are thought to have spread mostly in Paleolithic times.

Cavalli-Sforza got totally debunked of most of his studies done circa 1990, by Dr. Sykes.

I'm not sure that is the case. What has been reviewed, as far as I know, is the hypothesis of most of the genetic material entering Europe with the Neolitic. Now it seems it was mostly a Paleolitic process, what leaves the theories of mass migrations in rags.

Going back to your gothic quimera (in which I agree mostly on everything you have posted).It is very preliminary but nevertheless suggests that they should belong to either R1a or I... not r1b, which reaches it's peak west of Europe and declines in numbers East, and partially North, where the I haplogroup is quite large.

It's the other way around: R1b is (exactly) Hg3 (Eastern European) and R1a is (approximately) Hg1+Hg22 (Western). See the topic How to read a genetic map and, more specifically the following graphic of Arizona University: http://ycc.biosci.arizona.edu/nomenclature_system/fig1.html

Anyhow R1a and R1b are closely related, while I (approx. Hg2) is a diferent  branch.

For now you are right, there is no way we can tell, but I was talking about the future studies of populations, especially  the National Genographic Project, looks very promising. Please do not turn down future discoveries, it's not a sign of enlightenment. Best regards, Aragones

The main problem with Goths (and others) is that we actually have no idea on which were their specific lineages or the proportion of their haplogroups. If you take as reference Sweden, Poland or Rumania, you have very diferent cakes, though it seems quite obvious that Hg3/R1b must have been important.

But, as I said before those traces of Hg3 found in Iberia and other Western areas can well have come with many other peoples. Hard to say.