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Friesian Language

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Friesian Language
    Posted: 30-Sep-2005 at 22:05

I was watching a program on TV the other night about the Friesian Language Spoken in parts of Holland and Germany. The program claimed the language was virtually identical to the English language as spoken 1,500 years ago. Apparently 30-40% of modern English words are derived from Friesian words and not just any words, the most common ones.

They put the theory to the test. They had a guy speaking the language (nothing too complex) and he just kept on doing so for 15 mins.

Before they stated if you listen carefully you will begin to understand it.

And hell it worked, no translation, after 5 minutes of getting used to the pronuciation I was getting 1/4 - 1/3 of the words in the sentence, more than enough to understand what was being said. It's akin to English almost in the way Spanish is to Italian.

A week in Schleswig-Holstein and I'd put money on the fact I could hold a conversation with the locals.

Can anyone tell me if a Dutch or German speaker who had no English whatsoever could understand Friesian in anyway.

I'm seriously considering Friesian lessons, just because it would be so simple.



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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2005 at 01:00
Hmm. Anglo-Saxon/Old English was the closest relative of old Friesan.

I speak both Dutch and English, and i can say that, whilst written it seems like wierd Dutch, spoken i couldn't get word of it. The accent is very inpenetrable to me.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2005 at 10:37

I think with the prgram they were deliberately getting the guy to speak the 30% of words similar to English over and over. As you say the accent was strong and that was the problem not the the words themselves which were only slightly different to English. But accents can be got used to. It's going to see Chaucer, at first it's weird but in time with no training gradually you get it. In fcat that's probably a good example I guess Chaucer's about 1/2 way between Friesian and English, but without the accent.

1st time I went to Durham and spoke to someone I was really prepared for what I would hear, I opened my ears listened carefully, was prepared for most potential replies, asked a question, asked it again, said it a third time, then realised I wasn't even going hear them speak because they could understand a word I was saying. Accent can be bigger problems than dialects themselves.

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 08:46
I don't have much problems understanding Frisian, but I can't speak it myself. It sounds and looks like weird Dutch. For Dutch (non-Frisian) people understanding Frisian is also related to the place where they live. People in the northern Netherlands have less problems understanding it than people from the southern Netherlands. I can definately notice it's close to English. The Dutch word 'kerk' (church) for instance, is tsjerk (pronounced cherk) in Frisian,  so instead of the k used in Dutch, Frisian uses the ch like in English.
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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 22:47

Hmm, the following is an audio clip of Old English, about 1050, more preciself the Our Father prayer. Do you find it close to Friesian?

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/ballc/oe/paternoster-oe.ht ml


 



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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2005 at 00:48
Sounds like it to me, but wihout the really strong dutch accent. However really I don't know I'm just replying to move the post to the top in the hope Mixcoatl notices it and replies.... hint hint..
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2005 at 06:36
no, I don't think it sounds Frisian actually.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2005 at 11:55
Thanks
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2005 at 14:12

The Luxembourgish for cabbage is kabbitsch (not sure of the spelling). Where does that come from? Any other languages have the same or a similar word for it?

I've noticed watching Swedish films I can quite often understand short sentences of dialogue.

And some years ago I was working in Denmark and staying in a hotel in the north of Jutland, where - wonder of wonders in Denmark - the porter didn't speak English. so I asked a colleague how to say 'Can you ring for a taxi for me' in Danish.

It comes out as 'Kan du ringe p en taxa til mig?'

Given that is pronounced 'aw' more or less, it comes out sounding pretty much like English.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2005 at 14:43
Originally posted by Paul

I was watching a program on TV the other night about the Friesian Language Spoken in parts of Holland and Germany. The program claimed the language was virtually identical to the English language as spoken 1,500 years ago. Apparently 30-40% of modern English words are derived from Friesian words and not just any words, the most common ones.

They put the theory to the test. They had a guy speaking the language (nothing too complex) and he just kept on doing so for 15 mins.

Before they stated if you listen carefully you will begin to understand it.

And hell it worked, no translation, after 5 minutes of getting used to the pronuciation I was getting 1/4 - 1/3 of the words in the sentence, more than enough to understand what was being said. It's akin to English almost in the way Spanish is to Italian.

A week in Schleswig-Holstein and I'd put money on the fact I could hold a conversation with the locals.

Can anyone tell me if a Dutch or German speaker who had no English whatsoever could understand Friesian in anyway.

I'm seriously considering Friesian lessons, just because it would be so simple.


Now THAT is just blasphemy. Maybe yes, English can share many words with Frisian, but they're not derived from the language.
There is an old Frisian saying, "Brea, bter, en griene tsiis is goed Ingelsk en goed Fries." whose equivalent in English is "Bread, butter, and green cheese is good English and good Fries."... Both are pronounced basically the same, disregarding differences in accents. But again, 70% of English words are of Italic or Hellenistic origin, through different sources, so the Frisian statement is wrong.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2005 at 16:40

I don't think the program was saying Frisian derived from English. More the English and Frisians spoke the same language but English changed more over time than Frisian.

Most English words are neither, French, Latin or Greek, they're modern inventions. But the basic works spoken in every sentence and most frequently are old English.

 

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  Quote Londoner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 01:58
Originally posted by Mixcoatl

I don't have much problems understanding Frisian, but I can't speak it
myself. It sounds and looks like weird Dutch. For Dutch (non-Frisian)
people understanding Frisian is also related to the place where they
live. People in the northern Netherlands have less problems
understanding it than people from the southern Netherlands. I can
definately notice it's close to English. The Dutch word 'kerk' (church)
for instance, is tsjerk (pronounced cherk) in Frisian, so instead
of the k used in Dutch, Frisian uses the ch like in English.




      The Scottish word for "church" is "kirk".
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  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 03:00
Originally posted by gcle2003

The Luxembourgish for cabbage is kabbitsch (not sure of the spelling). Where does that come from? Any other languages have the same or a similar word for it?

I've noticed watching Swedish films I can quite often understand short sentences of dialogue.

And some years ago I was working in Denmark and staying in a hotel in the north of Jutland, where - wonder of wonders in Denmark - the porter didn't speak English. so I asked a colleague how to say 'Can you ring for a taxi for me' in Danish.

It comes out as 'Kan du ringe p en taxa til mig?'

Given that is pronounced 'aw' more or less, it comes out sounding pretty much like English.

 - and if you use the way most danes would word it, it becomes even closer:
 
"Kan du ringe efter en taxa for mig?"   ("efter" = "after" in english)
 
But since the Anglo-Saxon area in todays Denmark/Germany (Anglen and Sacshen) and northern Friesland are bordering areas, it is not that strange with similarities to English - with the migration in mind.
There still are hundreds of shared words between English and Danish.
 
In 1066 things took a slight other direction in English due to the French (Norman) influence.
 
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 03:12
I cant understand Frisian much at all. I can follow it when it has subtitles on the telly, but without a translation it's kinda hard. Funny too in a way: the sounds Frisian is made up of and the intonation and all are pretty similar to Dutch, so when someone is speaking Frisian, it sounds like I should understand it, but I dont. I once asked an old man to repeat himself four times before I realised he was speaking a different language...LOL.
 
I have a friend who is Frisian, and she told me that when she first moved to the centre of the Netherlands, she would make lots of mistakes in grammar in Dutch, because apparently the wordorder in a sentence tends to be different. And also there are words which mean one thing in Dutch and something else related in Frisian. For instance the Frisian word for 'walking' is almost the same as the Dutch for 'running', so she would constantly say she would 'run there'...LOL

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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 12:28

Now THAT is just blasphemy. Maybe yes, English can share many words with Frisian, but they're not derived from the language.
There is an old Frisian saying, "Brea, bter, en griene tsiis is goed Ingelsk en goed Fries." whose equivalent in English is "Bread, butter, and green cheese is good English and good Fries."... Both are pronounced basically the same, disregarding differences in accents. But again, 70% of English words are of Italic or Hellenistic origin, through different sources, so the Frisian statement is wrong.


Like say Paul, there is no problem here because most of the usual words used daily are of germanic origin, not latin.


Another thing. If you heard carefully the old english, i don't know if it's similar to frisian, but we the latins note that of course sound many more germanic that present english. In fact many people here when read or heard examples of old english ask first if this language is german.
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  Quote Etherman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 00:16
Frisian is English's closest relative (though neither is derived from the other). A bit more distantly related are German and Dutch. A bit further back and we add the Nordic languges to the mix. Going even further back we have Latin, Greek, Celtic, Hitite, Slavic, and others, all related.
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 10:29
Originally posted by Londoner

 

      The Scottish word for "church" is "kirk".
The Norse version was/is kyrka or similar. Scots have a number of Scandinavian words, I believe. Bairn comes to mind (Scandinavian barn).
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 19:46
Originally posted by Etherman

Frisian is English's closest relative (though neither is derived from the other).
 
Frisian is Old English closest relative. Modern English is another thing altogether.

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  Quote Etherman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 02:33
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

Originally posted by Etherman

Frisian is English's closest relative (though neither is derived from the other).


Frisian is Old English closest relative. Modern English is another thing altogether.

    
Indeed. Perhaps I should have said closest living relative.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 23:06

Before Old English and Old Frisian, there was Anglo-Frisian.  There were a number a sound shifts that occured that isolated this language further from the other Germanic languages.  First the Ingaevonic sound shift (pulling them from the Low Germanic languages) and then, for example, the Anglo-Frisian nasal spirant law (from which we get English/Frisian 'us' us (our) as opposed to H.Ger 'uns' and 'unser', and also Mod.E. 'tooth' O.Fris. 'toth'). 

     It is quite different from English, although some sentences may be mutually intelligible (on very rare occasions).  For example, I stayed with a Frisian friend and her family (in rural Fryslan) for part of a week this last summer, and having meek knowledge of Frisian, better of German, and speaking English, I could gleen what was being talked about sometimes.  Once, the dog  bit my friend, and when she said "bit my finger" not only was it obvious in context, but sounded practically the same.  I would not say, however, that in a week in Schleswig Holstein (or Fryslan) would you be speaking with the locals.  I don't think you'd be speaking with Geordie's in a week.   The most apparent similarities that Frisian has with English are seen through the northern English dialects (Geordie, Scots) of England and their vocal inflection.  It is much easier for Frisians and Dutch (and Danes, it is the land north of the Danelaw after all!)  people to understand northern accents than any other. 
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