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evidence Egyptians knew Americas?

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: evidence Egyptians knew Americas?
    Posted: 10-Oct-2018 at 04:59

A recent facebook post mentioned a site's article on Egypt in which one of the points was evidence that ancient Egyptians knew of the Americas/New World.
I had a look but it turned out to not be quite as great as they had made out. But anyway i compiled a list of some possible evidences that Egyptians knew of the Americas:

- Atlantis pretty certainly seems to match South America & Tiahuanaco (stark matches with the latter).
- The land of the sun set Urani (Amenti/Aaru/Pet) where Menes died might match America(s)?
- 3 pyramids of Sipan in Andean region are similar to 3 pyramids of Giza.
- Thoth came from a land in the west which might match Atlantis/America?
- American tobacco/cocaine/hasish found in New Kingdom mummies. (Toakkari Sea Peoples also bearing South American fan palm in Assyrian pictures according to Fitzgerald-Lee.)
- Some "fringe" sources claim a 1st/2nd king made a voyage west similar to Necho's (name Ginti is involved?)
- Great Pyramid geodesic information shows they knew the northern hemisphere and circumference and continents of the world.
- Piri Reis map shows Americas and Antarctica and is centered on Cairo/Giza.
- mumification common to Egypt and South America.
- Sea Peoples said to come from islands and mainland of the ocean.
- reed boats of Titicaca and Tana have been said to be similar.
- I think Mackenzie said the Egyptian/Assyrian winged sun disk is found in Americas? (He said it is like if someone found the Union Jack.) (Incas/Aztecs also had sun kings similar to Egyptians also had "sun king"?)
- 4 calendars coincide in 11540 bc (Mayan, Egyptian, Assyrian, Hindu) (refs Bellamy, Tomas).
- Thor Heyerdahl's boat voyage across Atlantic. (Hatshepsut's voyage to Punt. Necho's fleet?)

NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2018 at 01:34
It is highly doubtful that the Egyptians knew America.    If anything, the Egyptians were very insular in their world-view and this is reflected in their religion and spirituality.   They had a nearly psychological revulsion to dying outside of their own land for fear that their kas would suffer without family and friends remembering to present offerings to them for sustenance in the after-life.   

The Egyptians had what they needed from what was provided by the Nile and they were protected on all sides by geographic barriers including the Sea in the north, the cataracts in the south, and the desert to both east and west.   Their knowledge of geography was limited to the lands surrounding Egypt like the Tjehenu and Tjemehu peoples (Libyans) in the west, the Nehasyu peoples (Nubians) in the south, the A'amu peoples (Asiatics) in the northeast (Canaanites, Hittites, Assyrians, Babylonians, etc), and the Keftiu of the northern Sea.   They had a very rich knowledge of the names of places in each of these areas, but not one for any place in continental Europe or anywhere else east beyond Babylon.   

The only thing that changed in their 3000 year history was when the Hyksos invaded and dominated Egypt.    Up to that point the inhospitable geographical barriers which kept Egypt protected failed, and when the Hyksos were expelled the Egyptians were compelled to expand their power into Canaan to keep control over the Asiatics to prevent them from invading Egypt again.   

The trade network that the Egyptians established with the surrounding regions were sufficient to meet their needs.    They didn't need to go further afield to gather their resources.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2018 at 03:16
Language and toponims!In the same time it is possible they came by foot(walking!).
Na"De"Na"J=From Worshiping =Praising God-Compensation=Refund=Tax-Bank=Money=Cash=Coin originated-positioned-suited... Population=People-Mortality=Lethality-Action=Activity=Business=Trade=Culture(Ja)
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2018 at 19:18
There is nothing linking native American languages to Egyptian.   Foot walking?  No.   The distance would have been outrageously long and even then they would have to have crossed the Bering Strait to get to the Americas.    Nothing suggests that the Egyptians were even aware of anything beyond Hatti (Anatolia) in the north, Nubia and Punt in the south, the Libyans in the west, and Babylonia in the East.  No, the Egyptians saw their land as in order and anything on the outside of it as chaos.    
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2018 at 20:58

If it is ok I wish to extend this thread's original topic to include ancient Old World knowledges of Americas &/or Atlantis (and vice-versa American / New World knowledges of Old World). It doesn't seem worthwhile starting another new topic/thread when this one is already very similar.

Originally posted by Sharrukin


Every culture had a perception of what "the earth" meant.   For most cultures this just meant what they were aware of, of their surroundings.  NOTHING in the narrative shows knowledge of the world other than their local geography.  The Popol Vuh, itself is what was written down by about the middle of the 16th century, of legends and lore of the Quiche Maya.  You cannot use it to "prove" anything other than of what the Quiche knew of their own story.    


Originally posted by Sharrukin


There is NO ancient Egyptian source for the legend of Atlantis.


Originally posted by Sharrukin


... there is NO evidence that the Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians and Assyrians had any knowledge of the Americas.


One possibility for how they got there is that the sealevels were lower during Pleistocene ice ages, crossing by land bridges or rafts/canoes.
There are evidences that ice ages were contemporary with early ancient civilisations eg:
Sumerians were related to Combe-Capellids (near contemporaries of Cro-Magnons who were around during the last great maximum of the last ice age), plus the Sumerian floods might have been connected with interglacials?
Mohenjo-daro climate was cooler and wetter and lower levels are flooded which may mean lower sea levels.
Cambridge Ancient History is said to have give evidences that Old Kingdom climate was cooler/wetter (perhaps similar to Sphinx rain marks of Schoch?)
Ice Ages were post flood in biblical creationism.

There is also the possibility that the continents were still joint or were closer together than they are now, some think that Pangaea split during the flood, others thing it was during the days of Peleg when the earth was divided around about same time as Babel.



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 04-Nov-2018 at 21:05
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2018 at 02:15
One thing to consider is the names of lands known in these peoples records. Some of these lands or peoples below are unlocated or else their supposed location is only theory that there may be evidence is wrong. A few of these places/peoples could match Americas or Atlantis.

Lands or peoples in Mesopotamian history:
?8 nagus around edge/outside of Babylonian world map # of double hours away
Anaku "tin land"
Agaru
Akharru (western land)
Amurru (western land/sea)
Arali/Aralu "underworld" ("north-east"?)
Aratta
Anedina (Anshan?)
"Asshur" (Genesis 10)
Apsu(wa) (subterranean fresh waters held by spell)
Cedar forest/mountain/country
Dilmun ("home in the far away")
Edin
Guedin (Gu/Guti?)
Gubi (Guti?)
Hurrum
Kaptara "where pole star stands at zenith and amber fished from sea"
Kir (Kings/Chronicles/Prophets in Bible)
Kur "underworld, foreign land, land/country, mountain"
Kimmash
land of not return
Magan
Meluhha
Mashu "twin peaks"
Meskiaggusheir went up into the mountains (some compare Andes/Atlas)
Nisir/Mimush
Nibiru
Simmash
Su/Subartu/Sumasti/Suedin(hum)/Sirihum
Toakkari Sea Peoples bearing South American fan palm in Assyrian pictures according to Fitzgerald-Lee?

Lands or peoples in Egyptian history:
9/10 bows/arcs of the world (9th/10th described similar to arctic)
Aeria "fertile morning land"
Aa(en)ru/Aalu
Atlantis
Amenti "underworld"
Great Pyramid geodesic info
Hemu/Aamu "gentiles"
Hyksos
Heyerdahl's Ra & Kon Tiki voyages disproved his critics scepticism
island of the gods
Keftiou
land of the Phoenix
Necho's fleet
Punt ("Asian/eastern") & Hatshepsut's ships voyage
Pet
Piri Reis map centred on Cairo/Giza?
Pillars of Sesostris
Rosetau
Sea Peoples
Sipwrecked sailor
Shoal of Sesostris
Sin Wer "great water circle, ocean"
Sipan pyramids in Andes resemble 3 Pyramids of Giza.
Tritonis river (Aeria)
Tuat
Thoth came from a western land
Urani/Wernes "land of the sunset, 12 divisions"
Wadj Wer "great green sea"
Zodiac of Denderah

NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2018 at 02:05
One possibility for how they got there is that the sealevels were lower during Pleistocene ice ages, crossing by land bridges or rafts/canoes.

The Beringia land bridge was submerged by about 9,000 BC.  The Sumerians did not emerge until after 5300 BC when the southern part of Mesopotamia was settled.    So, NO, the timing is all wrong.

There are evidences that ice ages were contemporary with early ancient civilisations eg:
Sumerians were related to Combe-Capellids (near contemporaries of Cro-Magnons who were around during the last great maximum of the last ice age), plus the Sumerian floods might have been connected with interglacials?

You ended in a question mark so you really don't know.    The last ice age ended by about 9700 BC while the first settlements of southern Mesopotamia date from about 5300 BC so, NO they were not contemporary

Mohenjo-daro climate was cooler and wetter and lower levels are flooded which may mean lower sea levels.

the operative word here is "may mean".   Mohenjo-Daro dates from about 2500 BC, hence some 7200 years AFTER the end of the last ice age.  The "Dancing Girl" statuette which dates from the time of the cities foundation was made of bronze, so Mohenjo-Daro was founded during the Bronze Age NOT the Ice Age!!!

Cambridge Ancient History is said to have give evidences that Old Kingdom climate was cooler/wetter (perhaps similar to Sphinx rain marks of Schoch?)

Petrie wrote "The general conclusion as to the climate, then, seems to be that there has been no appreciable change in rain-fall, river-flow, or sand-blow during historic times."

Oh, and the ancient Egyptians did not have a flood story.

Ice Ages were post flood in biblical creationism.

The last Ice Age ended by about 9700 BC.   The southern Mesopotamian flood levels date from about 3500 BC (Ur), 2900 BC (Kish, Shuruppak), and 2600 BC (Kish).   So, NO the Ice Ages were pre-Flood.

There is also the possibility that the continents were still joint or were closer together than they are now, some think that Pangaea split during the flood, others thing it was during the days of Peleg when the earth was divided around about same time as Babel.

The operative words here are "possibility", "some think", "others think".   Mere opinions with no names and/or credentials.   We cannot go by these opinions to draw conclusions.
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2018 at 02:11
One thing to consider is the names of lands known in these peoples records. Some of these lands or peoples below are unlocated or else their supposed location is only theory that there may be evidence is wrong. A few of these places/peoples could match Americas or Atlantis.

Come on, A-R you KNOW that most of these are just vague designations.    Some of them are just names of place of the after-life!!!   The rest are KNOWN localities in the Ancient near east.
  
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  Quote Atlantean35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2018 at 11:17
Speaking of the afterlife, I don't know if you're actually interested in this. But the River Styx has some really interesting properties. In order to reach the underworld, you had to boat along the River Styx. Is this a literal river referring to an actual place on earth? Because it would be interesting if it was referring to the Nile River. In the ancient "caveman" times, the Nile was probably the only passage through the Sahara desert. So which is the underworld? Eurasia? Or Sub-Saharan Africa? What is Cerberus? It sounds like it might actually be a tribe of the wolf-culture, or in other words proto-Eurasian in origin.

So does that mean the Eurasian "caveman" hunter-gatherers considered Africa to be a hell on earth? I mean, the flora and fauna were much more deadly in Africa compared to Eurasia for some reason. It was one of the last explored lands on earth by European explorers for that reason. Perhaps this is why Africans spread throughout the entire globe in pre-history because they were used to deadlier environments? Or is it the other way around, and the Cerberus were Eurasians under the employ of the ancient Africans, and thus the unique emphasis on the dog culture? Hades is supposed to be cold right? Are most of our myths African in origin, since Africa was, by some views, the dominant force and culture behind the founding of the oldest civilizations? (Mind you, these are pre-Bantu non-black light-skinned Africans. Basically, they were Africans but not the black Africans we associate with Africa today. Africa is an exceedingly large continent, about the size of Europe, China, and USA put together. Most maps aren't able to show this.)

The ancient Egyptians knew the area of East Africa as the "land of the gods". It was basically their name for East Africa. It was an area outside Egypt that was probably the source culture that was technologically superior to them in their early days. It's interesting that the light skinned Africans aren't very common in Africa anymore. This probably has something to do with the widespread oral tradition among the Bantu Africans where they kill and take the body parts of the fair skinned people and turn them into charms that bring wealth and prosperity. This is a superstition, but it is more plausible that it was once a more practical measure where living light-skinned East Africans, having lost limbs, would bring prosperity to the invading black Africans by passing on their technological knowledge. Many ancient groups in Africa were once much lighter than Africans generally are today. This is just a fact.

Of course, aside from this we know that the the Atlas mountains were believed by Herodotus to be the source of the Nile River, meaning there could be a mixup in geographic positions. (The source of the Nile River is in East Africa) Also, the 'Atlantes' who were living in or around these Atlas mountains, were somewhere in the radius of "Ethiopians", without being divided from them by Egypt, based on the sequential order he was listing the tribes/cultures of Africa. Meaning the 'Atlantes', and the Atlas mountains were probably not west of Egypt, as that would take them far away in the sequence from Herodotus's "Ethiopians".

(Africa was known as Libya to the ancients, which quite coincidentally sounds like 'Nibiru'. Perhaps the 'Annunaki' were just seafarers for whom we have wrongly interpreted their accounts. The lost continent to the south of India known as Kumari Kandam? Also probably referring to Africa.)


Edited by Atlantean35 - 07-Nov-2018 at 11:38
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2018 at 15:30
The working reasoning as to the "Out-of-Africa" theory is that temperatures were cooler and that the water level was low enough to create land bridges linking Africa to Asia.  The evidence shows that the migrants kept to a coastal migratory pattern reaching the Indian subcontinent and eventually reached Australia through another land bridge.  I need to point out that the earliest tool assemblages found in southern India matched those of Africa of the same period.   The point here is that those cooler temperatures would have allowed for a much more lusher Africa, hence Africa remained rather resource rich especially in food resources.  Fauna and flora would have flourished as resources so no reason for leaving Africa for lack of resources.   The only reason for the first migrations was easy access to Asia.

Now, considering the Nile, there is NO evidence that the Egyptians saw their sacred and life-giving river as leading to the Duat (or Amenti) their conception of the underworld of testing.  That access was through the tombs.  

(Africa was known as Libya to the ancients, which quite coincidentally sounds like 'Nibiru'. Perhaps the 'Annunaki' were just seafarers for whom we have wrongly interpreted their accounts. The lost continent to the south of India known as Kumari Kandam? Also probably referring to Africa.)

Nibiru is a "star" (visible celestial object) which marks a point between two other objects.  Hence it is interpreted as "crossing" and "point of transition".  It also used in reference to the crossing of rivers or other large bodies of water.   There are NO other contexts for the usage of the term.  

The Annunaki were just a group of Sumero-Babylonian deities.   They were the "offspring of An" and presided over the underworld.   Enlil was among their number.  They are compared to the Igigi, the group of Mesopotmian deities presiding over the heavens.   And again, there are NO other contexts for the usage of the term.
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2018 at 23:32
Originally posted by Arthur-Robin


If it is ok I wish to extend this thread's original topic to include ancient Old World knowledges of Americas &/or Atlantis (and vice-versa American / New World knowledges of Old World). It doesn't seem worthwhile starting another new topic/thread when this one is already very similar.



It should not get too broad.  If another people/civilization ( Phoenicians, Africans, Chinese etc.) is discussed in a way that is relevant to the current topic then that's ok. Short deviations should not be a problem either but the main subject in this thread should be the ancient Egyptians and the Americas.  

Star



Edited by Sander - 09-Nov-2018 at 00:14
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2018 at 01:05
and maybe they are the same people we cal with different names!According Bat Creek stone script yes they were there!But language and signs they used had originated probably before it.Signs are not heavy to carry.Voices=Words also!Wink
Na"De"Na"J=From Worshiping =Praising God-Compensation=Refund=Tax-Bank=Money=Cash=Coin originated-positioned-suited... Population=People-Mortality=Lethality-Action=Activity=Business=Trade=Culture(Ja)
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2018 at 01:12

Originally posted by Arthur-Robin


If it is ok I wish to extend this thread's original topic to include ancient Old World knowledges of Americas &/or Atlantis (and vice-versa American / New World knowledges of Old World). It doesn't seem worthwhile starting another new topic/thread when this one is already very similar.

Originally posted by Sander


It should not get too broad.  If another people/civilization ( Phoenicians, Africans, Chinese etc.) is discussed in a way that is relevant to the current topic then that's ok. Short deviations should not be a problem either but the main subject in this thread should be the ancient Egyptians and the Americas.  Star


Alright thanks. I have started another thread/topic here where i also answer Sharrukin's comments:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37782



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 09-Nov-2018 at 01:13
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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