Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

New ancient civilization in North Caucaus mountain

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Runwildkangaroo View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 07-Jan-2015
Location: Russia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
  Quote Runwildkangaroo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New ancient civilization in North Caucaus mountain
    Posted: 08-Jan-2015 at 12:05
It is known that any phenomenon if properly to undertake it, is always capable to open the nuances invisible to an eye at first sight. The same belongs and to history. Any fact, any period, any place conceals in itself the big or small hidden actions which are opened to the most curious observer sooner or later.
So left with me when having come across Potto's multi-volume set about the Caucasian War, I through it, step by step, the monograph behind the monograph, the book behind the book, I came to the most distant, most hidden phenomena in the history of Kuban relating to its most remote history at a boundary of human culture.
In the course of knowledge of culture and outlook of the Adyghe ethnos I arrived at idea of its depth and complexity peculiar not so much to the people, how many full cultural associations, "civilizations" in their small understanding more and more. All these properties specified that the Circassian people had to have a long material culture. About same told also archeological finds of Western Caucasus and, in particular, basins of the rivers Béla and Laba, mistakenly attributed by inhabitants to Scythians or Sarmatians, who what name knows more.
News from the district of Greater Sochi became the last push, is more exact from Loo, about detection speckled by pictograms of a stone in a crevice is deep in the wood. This news induced me to search of any information on these stones therefore a lot of extremely interesting information which I hurry to share in a manner of questions-answers peculiar to me was found.

So, a question No. 1 – these stones from where undertook?
Question the extremely interesting. As it appeared, a stone from Loo already the third since the 60th years. They were called plates – the Maikop plate (found in the ancient settlement of a copper bronze age of the middle of the 4th millennium BC — the middle of the 3rd millennium, near Maikop city), the Sukhumi plate (found at construction of the embankment in Sukhumi) and actually now here a plate from Loo.
Plates represented the stones speckled by drawings and badges like the Egyptian hieroglyphs, only more schematic, semi-alphabetic.
The first plate was found in the mid-sixties of the 20th century when there was excavation of the ancient settlements located near the Maikop barrow, largest in Europe, which gold and silver jewelry can be seen in the Hermitage to this day. Then was considered that these finds belong to a certain culture, and can even to the people which came to the Caucasus from Mesopotamia, was art and stylistic analogies to the Middle East of times of Babylon too much. Yes what to say, such theory and now continues to live in scientific community and has rather strong base preferring to ignore not numerous, but essential counterarguments disproving it.
Respectively, nobody seriously didn't make attempts to do any interpretations, too strongly occurred, and the opinion on primitiveness of the vital device of the people of Kuban in those far times continues to occur among scientists. The only thing that it was noted, this strange similarity of signs to ancient Bibl's protoletter, the city-state of Phoenicia. However, even those rare notes about it were only dragged in to Middle Eastern influence. 
Unfortunately, to the present the official scientific point of view on Maikop culture continues to adhere to this critically weak theory. But in it managed to do a gap two essential facts which I will give literally:

Fact No. 1: Hatta.
"Hatta — the people occupying Hatti's country in the central and southeast part Anatoly (present Turkey) during 2500 — 2000/1700 during an era of an early and average bronze age. The name of the country and the people was inherited later subdued them Kheta, however the outdated name of hatt as "protokhett" quite misleading — Kheta treated absolutely other language family …
The Swiss orientalist Emil Forrer, in the 20-th years of XX century, for the first time stated a hypothesis that hatts language consists related to the West Caucasian languages, namely Abkhazian, Adyghe and Ubykh languages.
Being guided by poor linguistic data, some researchers suggest about hypothetical relationship of hatts with the Abkhaz-Adyghe languages. There are some instructions on structural similarity, and material proximity of formant, it is how possible to judge the valid sounding of the phonemes hidden behind cuneiform writing graphics.
Degree of structural proximity between hatts and kartvel languages is represented smaller, than between hatts and Abkhaz-Adyghe. Though kartvel languages in the field of a verb have difficult system of a prefixation and suffixation, but the principles of it a bit different, than in hatts. For the solution of a question of genetic linkages of hatts language with the kartvel there are no sufficient data.
However, it is possible to note that hatts language, finding presumable lines of similarity with Abkhaz-Adyghe and, maybe, with kartvel languages, doesn't show any common features with the nakh-Dagestan languages".
That is, in those ancient times, during blossoming of Maikop culture Abkhaz-Adyghe tribes appear in the Middle East, and not vice versa semitic-speakers in the Caucasus, that is goes process of migration of culture and ethnos to the south.

Fact No. 2: George Fedorovich Turchaninov.
"Turchaninov G. F. - Soviet linguist, doctor of science. The author of a hypothesis of the protocaucasian writing which isn't recognized as most of linguists. Georgy Turchaninov declared opening and decoding of the so-called ashuysky letter. According to its theory, this letter of ancient Abkhazians, the Abazin and Ubykhs who once called themselves ashuyets, and the country Ashuyea. In the III millennium BC this country stretched from the Black Sea in the south to present Maikop city in the North and went out of the Kuban Rivers in the northwest and the Phase (Rion) in the southeast. Written monuments of ashuysky language cover the period from the middle of the III millennium BC on the IV—V centuries AD. At the end of III — the beginning of the II millennium BC the ashuysky letter was brought to ancient Phoenicia by the ashuysky slaves who were on sale there and was approved in it as the protobiblos (pseudo-hieroglyphic) letter. The monotony in writings of Ashuy (ancient Abkhazia) and Bibla (Phoenicia) is explained by it. The Ashuysky letter in Bible was further a basis for creation of actually Phoenician letter.
So far it is known that in support of Turchaninov option of decoding of the ashuysky letter in responses and in personal letters only the following scientists spoke:
academicians V. V. Struva, I. I. Meshchaninov, I. N. Vinnikov;
the pioneer of the bible letter — the archeologist M. Dunand (France);
the researcher of bible texts — the Semitist A. Irku (Austria)"

So, in the dry rest, at least, two cult professors-academicians, world-wide recognized pioneer of the letter about which there is a speech in a subject of the Middle East also the most authoritative specialist in the Middle East which in total eclipse more than a half of the scientific community involved in a perspective.

Actually about Turchaninov's opening – it is very logical. From all languages natives and others, perhaps influencing on local in those days, the most suitable to interpretation appeared the Abkhazian language which not strongly was exposed to external influences since those old times and completely correlated with the image and semantic loading of signs.

The question No. 2 – what was deciphered by Turchaninov?

From history of interpretations, it is possible to understand that in those ancient times, in the gold-bearing valley of the Belaya (White) river was quite large, developed, cultural state with the writing which was owned by local priests.
At some point there was rather progressive leader (by the name of Ptuh), super activist, who tried to make the letter available to all population. And it turned out, and some rather long period of his life sufficient for emergence of competent generation, the letter enjoyed popularity, plates with descriptions of acts of the leader were beaten out everywhere. But as already was, for example, in the same Egypt, the reformer appeared in enemy situation with the cunning hieratic priesthood which wasn't wishing to share the power over crowd. Finaly when the leader floating in patrimonial possession (near Gudauta, Abkhazia) he was seized by pirates and that became a result of hostility. 
The state Ashuya as it is possible to understand from ethnography and archeology to the South bordered with Hatts which still didn't move to Asia Minor yet and were engaged in piracy. The leader appeared in the slave market in Anapa, pirates asked repayment. But in the country there was a revolution, stones were dumped from rocks, broke, competent people killed or sold in slavery, and family of the leader killed so to redeem him it appeared there is nobody. 
Pirates didn't wait for repayment and sold the leader to Phoenicia, in Bibl where by then the colony of ancient Abkhazians (ashuyets) was formed. Probably, Ptuh learned about events in the homeland late enough as settlers left a stone with the message to his brother about repayment in Bible, without having sent it to the Caucasus.
Together with the archeologist Dunand, Turchaninov, proved similarity of writing of plates to the bible letter which in essence was introduced to the city together with competent slaves. And as it is already established in linguistics, the bible letter is the ancestor of the Phoenician alphabet, that alphabet who generated to all of us known letters. The Phoenician alphabet was borrowed subsequently by Greeks, and Romans already borrowed the alphabet those. That is, left that alphabets of all modern European nations came from Abkhazia. Unacceptable point of view.

All interpretations are stated in Turchaninov's monographs so qualitatively and thoroughly, with translation variations that doubts in the accuracy of sense of the translation don't arise. Especially, when you know that these translations were made within decades in collaboration with domestic and foreign experts of those who didn't take a jaundiced view to work.

Question No. 3 – why we don't know of these works?

Reasons for that also three.
First, Turchaninov started dealing with an issue late enough, in the 60th, on the advice of colleagues. Earlier he studied the Kabardian languages, developed grammar, became the authoritative figure in Kabardino-Balkaria, the educator, and later as well in Abkhazia. But not in it an essence as it constantly was in political isolation as the person, the statements about ideas of Marxism "not justified trust of party", and even sitting under political articles.
After official condemnation of a marrizm (the Marxist class theory of language) it was dismissed from Institute of linguistic researches of the Russian Academy of Sciences. Since 1950 remained to work at the Adygei teacher's institute (nowadays Adygei state university) it founded chair of an abkhaz linguistics by 1960.
Secondly, as well as at the time of the Russian Empire, and in Soviet period (and, by the way not less, now) the point of view of the authorities to rouse the last to any questions concerning history of Circassians, which are especially able to patriotism growth (so and to the requirement about recognition of genocide), extremely weren't welcomed and were diligently suppressed in all possible ways.
Thirdly, concerning the Soviet period of time, the strong Georgian school of archeology and ethnology of the Caucasus had the most powerful influence on Academy of Sciences of the USSR and in every possible way stopped any attempts of a denial of the scientific point of view about primacy of the Georgian culture in the Caucasus. The Georgian state tried to dominate in the Caucasus in the cultural plan and diligently supported the myth about own greatest cultural antiquity among the surrounding nations.

For this reason, Turchaninov's works were unpacked only in 2001, only in small quantity, without advertizing and in a narrow circle of fans. To find them on benches of shops, both simply book, and specialized it is impossible. Also never you will hear at them from tribunes of educational institutions and scientific platforms, except for rare symposiums of experts. The rare objective scientists and numerous educated people in Abkhazia in large quantities sending to the scientist the letters with thanks and also helping finds were their only real admirers.
To trust or not – a choice of everyone. The main thing to be able to analyze and separate truth from a ryegrass own head. 

I will watch interpretation of the plate from Loo sent to the Adygei republican institute of humanitarian researches of Kerashev to department of archeology. The benefit of followers and pupils at Turchaninov remained much, even after his death in 1989.

Also I will be glad to any information on a subject.

---
It is possible to examine a subject in more detail:
Stone from Loo - http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=lp820XAIYeA
http://maks-portal.ru/content/v-loo-nashli-kamen-s-pismenami-drevneyshey-civilizacii-foto
1. Anfertyeva A.N. Institut of linguistic researches during blockade (the text of the report at the "Linguistics in the years of War" conference, 2005)
2. Dunayevskaya I. M. About structural similarity of hatts language to languages of the northwest Caucasus. — The collection in honor of the academician N. A. Orbeli. — M.-L., 1960.
3. Andreyeva M. V. To a question of the southern communications of Maikop culture//the Soviet archeology. — 1977. — No. 1. — Page 39 — 56.
4. E. I. Krupnov. About a mysterious Maikop inscription//Questions of history No. 3, M. 1964.
5. Ancient ashuysky petroglyphs (Western Caucasus)
Turchaninov's works:
1. Turchaninov G. F. About language of inscriptions on stones of the Mayatsky ancient settlement and flasks of the Novocherkassk museum. Soviet archeology. No. 1. 1964.
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2015 at 15:50
I learned in school that Russia has had about 169 ethnic communities.So this one comes 170th, correct?Or it was ex.SSSR?It looks it was SSSR.Hi Runwildkangaroo,just go on with your work!Smile
Back to Top
Runwildkangaroo View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 07-Jan-2015
Location: Russia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
  Quote Runwildkangaroo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2015 at 15:55
Well, this one included in those 169 ethnics. They even have own Republic named Adygeya. But it just less than 5% of previous population, that was fully destrotyed and departed to the Ottoman Empire while Great Caucasian War in 18 century. Modern population lost their mentality and most of cultural principles. They are fully assimilated. 

Edited by Runwildkangaroo - 08-Jan-2015 at 15:58
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2015 at 16:06
And they spoke Russian language before or they had their own?
Back to Top
Runwildkangaroo View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 07-Jan-2015
Location: Russia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
  Quote Runwildkangaroo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2015 at 16:12
No, they are bilingual know. Own language is Adyghe language - very hard for european listener. 
Also it has different dialects. Now it mostly main Adyghe dialect (it was 6 different, but know only one Besleneevsky type), Abkhaz dialect (using in Republic of Abkhazia - rebel part of Georgia), Karachaevsky dialect (using in Karachaevo-Cherkessia Repbulic - part of Russia).
Back to Top
Runwildkangaroo View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 07-Jan-2015
Location: Russia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
  Quote Runwildkangaroo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2015 at 16:15
See and listen it there - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adyghe_language
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.