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Haplogroup J
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mojobadshah View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Haplogroup J
    Posted: 26-Jun-2013 at 14:21
From what I understand Haplogroup J is both an Iranian gene and also has the 2nd highest frequency in Europe.  Is the high frequency of J in Europe owing to the Scythians?
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2013 at 03:40

It doesn't seem to be related with Scythians
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Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2013 at 11:32
Very interesting. The Alani touch much of those areas on the map, and I believe the genetics are connected.
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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Posts: 382 		  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2013 at 12:47
The Alani were Scythians.  J is supposed to have originated in the Near East or Caucuses.  Certainly today J is frequent in Greater Iran and has the 2nd highest frequency in Europe, including Greece and Italy.  If J is not the Iranian gene, then what haplogroup is?  Could be J a Proto-Iranian haplogroup (e.g. Greco-Aryan, Indo-European) and J2 the Iranian (and Scythian) haplogroup?  
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Posts: 382 		  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2013 at 12:53
From what I understand J is one of the 7 daughters of the mitochondrial eve that spawned the European gene.  So I'm thinking that these 7 daughters are subgroups of haplogroup R. But J is said to have been the only group to have originated outside of Europe, in the Near East, and J2 is frequent in Iran.  
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2013 at 14:12
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Very interesting. The Alani touch much of those areas on the map, and I believe the genetics are connected.

I could not catch the connection with Scythians and Haplo J but yes, it looks like Alanis migration route and Alani's and Scythians could share similar genes


Originally posted by mojobadshah

The Alani were Scythians.  J is supposed to have originated in the Near East or Caucuses.  Certainly today J is frequent in Greater Iran and has the 2nd highest frequency in Europe, including Greece and Italy.  If J is not the Iranian gene, then what haplogroup is?  Could be J a Proto-Iranian haplogroup (e.g. Greco-Aryan, Indo-European) and J2 the Iranian (and Scythian) haplogroup?  

As Turkic migration to West didn't change the majority of haplogroups in Turkey so why it would be change in Iran? Proto-Iranian did not lived in Iran. They lived in North and Northeast areas of Caspian Sea. This place is so close to mother land of haplogroup R1. In my opinion, majority of proto-Iranians had haplogroup R genes but ancient people in Iran (pro-x) had haplgroup J1. That's makes our aryan Iran is not that much aryan but this is just my idea. 

this map put the origin of J in Levant not in Caucaus so if Scythians were Indo-european(R), your thesis can't be true

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Dominant Y-DNA Haplogroups

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Is there anybody in us who has searched own haplogroup? 
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mojobadshah View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2013 at 17:03
Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Very interesting. The Alani touch much of those areas on the map, and I believe the genetics are connected.

I could not catch the connection with Scythians and Haplo J but yes, it looks like Alanis migration route and Alani's and Scythians could share similar genes

Well haplogroup J is said to be 1 of the 7 clans of Europe in the genetic sense.  

The seven "clan mothers" mentioned by Sykes each correspond to one (or more) human mitochondrial haplogroups.


All seven "clan mothers" descend from Mitrochodnrial Eve (L)

I would assume that this L was actually one of the Proto-Indo-European clan mother.  I think I see what your saying about J spawning from Turkey, however.  But how do we know that J didn't originate in Iran and spread to Turkey.  I'm pretty sure the Scythians lived on the outskirts of Iran and used to cover a much larger territory.  Scythia has even been mentioned in official English, Irish, and Scottish documents.  J, obviously can't be gene that is older than R, because unless I'm mistaken J descended from R.    

 
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Posts: 382 		  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2013 at 17:07
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scythia-Parthia_100_BC.png
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Posts: 382 		  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2013 at 17:17
Isn't the eponym Turkey derived from the Iranian eponym Turiya?
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2013 at 19:58
Originally posted by mojobadshah

 
Well haplogroup J is said to be 1 of the 7 clans of Europe in the genetic sense.  

The seven "clan mothers" mentioned by Sykes each correspond to one (or more) human mitochondrial haplogroups.


All seven "clan mothers" descend from Mitrochodnrial Eve (L)

I would assume that this L was actually one of the Proto-Indo-European clan mother.  I think I see what your saying about J spawning from Turkey, however.  But how do we know that J didn't originate in Iran and spread to Turkey.  I'm pretty sure the Scythians lived on the outskirts of Iran and used to cover a much larger territory.  Scythia has even been mentioned in official English, Irish, and Scottish documents.  J, obviously can't be gene that is older than R, because unless I'm mistaken J descended from R.    

First of all I missunderstood you. The topic is "Haplogroup J" but which J Y-Dna or Mt-Dna. It is not clear. However you have already explained it in your third post but I had missed it. All my posts are about Y-Dna and I am still behind my words. 

but in Mt-Dna case (True maps for Mt-DnaBig smile). It origion is not clear to say that it belonds middle east
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Ancient Russian genetics

"Mesolithic remains from Oleni Ostrov, Karelian Republic (7500 YBP). The most frequent mtDNA haplogroups were U4 and C, but U2e, U5a, J, and H were also found. The results are very similar to those from other Mesolithic sites in Europe. However, this sample shows a much stronger affinity to modern Siberian populations. The conclusion is that there were intense contacts between Northeastern Europe and Western Siberia during the Mesolithic period.

Bronze Age remains, also from Bolshoy Oleni Ostrov cemetary, Kola-peninsula (3500 YBP). This sample produced haplogroups C, U5a, D, Z, U4 and T. Again, Asian influence is clearly evident, but it appears to have come from the Arctic zone, rather than from Western or Central Siberia. Moreover, the results suggest a significant population replacement in the region since the Bronze Age, because modern inhabitants of Karelia and surrounds exhibit a very different mtDNA gene pool.

Iron Age Scythian remains from near Rostov-on-Don (2500 YBP). This proved to be the most diverse sample of the three, carrying haplogroups T, U5a, H, I, D, A, C, F, U2e and U7. It's dominated by West Eurasian lineages, and is thus similar in that regard to a Scythian sample from Kazakhstan.
"


 
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Posts: 382 		  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2013 at 20:23
Is there a Greek haplogroup in Iran?  Is the Kalashi haplogroup a Greek haplogroup?  
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Posts: 550 		  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2013 at 22:35
Originally posted by mojobadshah

Is there a Greek haplogroup in Iran?  Is the Kalashi haplogroup a Greek haplogroup?  


No the Kalash do not have Greek ancestry as some claim.  Automosal DNA has shown they lack any link to Greece or South Eastern Europe.  The Kalash are actually more similar to North Caucasians and other Indo-Iranians like Tajiks,Wakhi,Pashtuns.  

They are actually the least mixed group in South Central Asia.


Edited by Ince - 27-Jun-2013 at 22:35
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Posts: 550 		  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2013 at 22:40
Originally posted by mojobadshah

From what I understand Haplogroup J is both an Iranian gene and also has the 2nd highest frequency in Europe.  Is the high frequency of J in Europe owing to the Scythians?


No it does not.  Y-dna J is very old it probably arrived in Europe long before Iranians.  There is no Iranian y-dna because it all depends on what time period you look at.  The Iranian homeland was BMAC before Iran who largerly carried Y-dna R1a1a(Z93+) and then J2 and also some G as well.  But they arrived in Iran they gained extra J2 and G and the R1a1a decreased.  But still Kurds and Iranians have the highest amount of R1a1a in the middle-east which came from Central Asia as the one Iranians carry is the Z93+ type which is largely found in South Central Asia among Tajiks,Pashtuns,Indo-Aryans. 


Edited by Ince - 27-Jun-2013 at 22:40
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Posts: 382 		  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2013 at 04:29
Originally posted by Ince

Originally posted by mojobadshah

From what I understand Haplogroup J is both an Iranian gene and also has the 2nd highest frequency in Europe.  Is the high frequency of J in Europe owing to the Scythians?


No it does not.  Y-dna J is very old it probably arrived in Europe long before Iranians.  There is no Iranian y-dna because it all depends on what time period you look at.  The Iranian homeland was BMAC before Iran who largerly carried Y-dna R1a1a(Z93+) and then J2 and also some G as well.  But they arrived in Iran they gained extra J2 and G and the R1a1a decreased.  But still Kurds and Iranians have the highest amount of R1a1a in the middle-east which came from Central Asia as the one Iranians carry is the Z93+ type which is largely found in South Central Asia among Tajiks,Pashtuns,Indo-Aryans. 

Wikipedia says J is a subgroup of R.  Does that mean J2 a subgroup of R1a1a? 
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2013 at 13:29
Guys now you are mixing Mt-DNA and Y-DNA. Big smile

In Mt-DNA, J is subgroup of R but in Y-DNA, both of them come from same ancester Haplogroup F (mt-DNA). However if we look Mt-DNA, we can see that F(Y-DNA) is subgroup of R(Y-DNA), so they are different.

You were mentioning about ancester Eve so talk just Mt-DNA

Mt-DNA map of Europe



Y-DNA map of Europe


As you see there is not much Haplo R(Mt-DNA) in Europe instead of R(Y-DNA) is majority Y-DNA group in Europe. 
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Posts: 480 		  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2013 at 14:06
So what is the point of this thread exactly?  
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2013 at 16:18
Originally posted by TITAN_

So what is the point of this thread exactly?  

mojobadshah is asking that, is there any connection between prevalence of Haplogroup J in Europe and Scythians. He said that it is second biggest group in Europe and I think he wanted to mean Haplogroup J (mt-DNA)
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