QuoteReplyTopic: Bulgars facial anthropology Posted: 19-Feb-2013 at 05:48
Originally posted by MrButlerKing
Modern Bulgarians are a mixture of Ancient Thracians, Slavs and Proto-Bulgarians
Mixture of Proto-Bulgarians? hardly....
Bulgarians are located in an intermediate position between Eastern European and Mediterranean populations, which is in agreement with historical events. Genetically, modern Bulgarians are more closely related to other neighbouring Balkan populations (Macedonians, Serbs, Romanians, Greeks and Albanians) than to the rest of the Europeans.[60][61][62][63][64] Bulgarians are distant from Turks despite geographical proximity.[65]
Ancient DNA has been retrieved from Thracian populations from the south-East of Romania, which might be helpful in suggesting the genetic make-up of pre-Slavic Bulgaria. A few mtDNA matches were found with modern Bulgarians. However this study was done in 2004, before the present sequencing methods were available and consequently full mitochondrial genomes could not be obtain
And no, they weren't exactly "Mongoloid", the only one "Mongoloid" trait was the epithelian eyelid, which is not exactly a slanted eye, but turned down eyelid. And the custom of bracing the skull wasn't exclusively a "Mongoloid" cultural trait, so it cannot be used as any proof of anything. Only based on a skull or 2, from 1-2 necropolices it's not possible to make a characterization of the whole population anyway.
I NEVER SAID THEY WERE MONGOLOID.
Even the study doesn't say that, it said they were Caucasoid with small Mongoloid admixture with the men being more Mongoloid than females.
Besides the very word Mongoloid, as well as Caucasian, Negroid, etc, are not anymore considered scientiic terms, because, according to the AAA races don't exist to start with.
Doesn't matter, those are common term and people still use it today. How is one suppose to describe a Pakistani if you don't call them Caucasoid?
Maybe it will do you some good to check out some Bulgarian trends in anthropology, not only to bring Russian sources that well may have a political agenda to them.
You're welcome to post Bulgarian anthropology data
Well, a small Proto-Bulgarian tribe croseed the Danube and became politically intrumental in forming of the following Bulgarian kingdoms; so it cannot be said that the Proto-Bulgarians have nothing to do with Bulgarians; even though genetically they melted into the local populations.
So, what is your argument - that Proto-Bulgarians have a small Mongoloid admixture? If you want to use outdated scientific terms it's your money, but don't expect the others not to react; people are efine in racial terms anymore, but in ethnic and georaphical ones; like a Pakistani. The Proto-Bulgarians were a Central Asian tribe, so it's more than normal to have some Central-Asian phenotype features, what is so special in that?
Here an address of one BG study, it's on PDF and I cannot copy from it here
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View Institute of Experimental Morphology and Anthropology, Bulgarian Academy of ... of the genetic heritage of the proto-Bulgarians, one of the three main ... are data only for two small samples of ethnic Bulgarians, residents outside Bulgaria.
The jist of it s that the populaton in the Rodopa Mountain shows some similarities to populations from Causacus, Siberia and Privoljie, which is a genetic inheritance from the Proto-Bulgarians.
In order to establish their
ethnogenesis, an anthropological study was made of 3600 persons of both
sexes among the population of North-Eastern Bulgaria. Of them 678 were
Kapantsi and Hartsoi. These are the two Bulgarian ethnographic groups
whose ethnogenesis had not been elucidated. It was not known which of
the three basic components of the Bulgarian people — Slavs,
Proto-Bujgarians and Thracians — predominated in them. The methodics of
the Moscow School of Anthropology were used in the study and the results
obtained were computerized. The most frequently met race among the
two groups was the Mediterranean, followed by the Northern in its two
varieties — the Eastern Baltic (more often among the Kapantsi) and the
Western (more often among the Hartsoi), followed by the Dinaric race.
Mongoloid elements were also found, most of all among the Kapantsi,
manifested chiefly as the Turanian race. Its Russian variant (sometimes
even apparent in red hair), characteristic of the Proto-Bulgarian tribe
of the Suvari (Savari), the Kumanians and the Huns, is also found among
them. Among the Kapantsi, the Pamir-Fergan racial type is also
encountered which is typical of the Proto-Bulgarians of all tribal
unions studied in Bulgaria. Racial typography makes it possible to
establish that of all the Proto-Bulgarian ethnic groups the largest
number of Proto-Bulgarian elements is found among the Kapantsi, followed
by Slav elements and a smaller amount of Thracian elements. Kumanians
also had a part in their ethnogenesis. They are not found among the
Hartsoi, who represented the Slav tribe of Poljani with a large
admixture of Proto-Bulgarians and a small one of Thracians...." http://www.ceeol.com/aspx/issuedetails.aspx?issueid=e8f934f7-af84-466a-8888-5a409274efde&articleId=71ec0b2a-0424-4560-ba84-15e0101527c7
So, the Proto-Bulgarians were a mixture of Caucasian, Central Asian, Pamirian etc tribes; and they left a signficant admixture i at least one Bulgarian ethnographic type - the Kapanci from NE Bulgaria. This ethnic mixture is a complicated one and definitely cannot be called "Mongoloid" even as an admixture, the most we can say some element, like the epithelian eyelid.
So, the Proto-Bulgarians were a mixture of Caucasian, Central Asian, Pamirian etc tribes; and they left a signficant admixture i at least one Bulgarian ethnographic type - the Kapanci from NE Bulgaria.
I doubt they were a mixture of all those race, more like a alliance of all tribes together but with Central Asian leadership like always. Ancient Central Asian people were Caucasian with some Mongoloid admixture.
followed by the Dinaric race. Mongoloid elements were also found, most of all among the Kapantsi, manifested chiefly as the Turanian race
You just proved to me that their was Mongoloid element
This ethnic mixture is a complicated one and definitely cannot be called "Mongoloid" even as an admixture, the most we can say some element, like the epithelian eyelid.
For the last time I never called Bulgars "Mongoloid". Anyway is there any proof that Proto-Bulgarians are a mix of those 3 tribes and not separate tribes? I prefer to say Proto-Bulgarians were mixture of Eurasian and Caucasians.
All I can see is that the Proto-Bulgarians were Central-Asiatic - any other closerr classification is too streched for me, since don't know enough about them. I never said there wasn't Mongoloid element, but it's one thing to have an element, another to be called so. The element is clear, and normal to be so, as I say in any post, as they were Central-Asiatic.
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