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Nick1986
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Topic: The Mad Mahdi Posted: 07-Feb-2013 at 07:56 |
From 1881-85 Muhammed Ahmed proclaimed himself the Mahdi and established what could be described as the first modern Islamist state in Sudan. His fanatical followers, nicknamed "fuzzy-wuzzies", held their own against the more advanced British, Egyptian and Ethiopian armies, and weren't defeated until 1898
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Baal Melqart
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Posted: 07-Feb-2013 at 12:38 |
Nice find Nick. I'm sure there were a lot of people who claimed to be the Mahdi over the past centuries. Most of them probably belonged to Shiism since they value the belief in Mahdi as being more central to faith than their Sunni counterparts. There is actually someone today called Ahmad Al-Hassan, also goes by ''Al-Yamani'', who claims to be the apostle of the Mahdi. You can read more about him here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_al-Hassan_al-Yamani
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Nick1986
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Posted: 08-Feb-2013 at 08:53 |
The Madhi is the prophesied messiah for Muslims, right? Wouldn't Ahmed have been seen as a heretic by the rest of the Islamic world for setting himself up as an alternative leader to the Ottoman Caliph?
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Baal Melqart
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Posted: 08-Feb-2013 at 10:48 |
For those who were not convinced that he is in fact the Mahdi, yes he would be seen as a heretic. Plus anyone trying to compete with the caliphate would have generally been resented as an enemy of God.
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Nick1986
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Posted: 09-Feb-2013 at 08:35 |
Ahmad's Dervish followers wore distinctive white robes covered in dark patches. This one was brought back as a trophy by a British officer
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Nick1986
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Posted: 10-Feb-2013 at 09:34 |
The Dervishes had few guns during the 1881 war, preferring close quarter weapons like swords and spears. Despite this, they managed to break a British square at the battle of Tamai
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Nick1986
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Posted: 17-Feb-2013 at 07:39 |
A Dervish with sword, shield and dagger. The bolt action rifles that replaced the Martini Henry put the British at a disadvantage as the new bullets simply passed through enemies instead of lodging in their bodies and bringing them down
Edited by Nick1986 - 17-Feb-2013 at 07:42
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Nick1986
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Posted: 13-Mar-2013 at 20:22 |
One of the most effective weapons for bringing down a charging Dervish was the Howdah Pistol: a large caliber handgun used to kill wounded game. Originally these were two-barrel cap-and-ball muzzle loaders, but this breechloading example has four barrels and is chambered for modern brass cartridges
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Nick1986
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Posted: 28-Mar-2013 at 19:46 |
Collection of Dervish spears. They don't like it up em! http://www.spearcollector.com/Soedan/Soedan%20main.html
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Nick1986
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Posted: 19-Apr-2013 at 20:39 |
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Coritani
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Posted: 20-Apr-2013 at 05:40 |
“The bolt action
rifles that replaced the Martini Henry put the British at a disadvantage as the
new bullets simply passed through enemies instead of lodging in their bodies
and bringing them down”
Apart from the fact that a .303 round “passing” through a
body would do a lot to bring him down I find the above statement rather strange.
The British at the time of the Battle of Omdurman in 1898 were
equipped with Lee Metford rifles many of which would have been the original .45
calibre (the Martini having been replaced about 10 years before),
or the then new .303 Lee Enfield. Both had a range of about 2,800
yards, obviously less as a section weapon, and a relatively skilled rifleman
could put 10 rounds a minute down range. So fast in fact that few years later
at the beginning of the Great War the Germans were convinced the British had
machineguns when in fact they were just firing the Lee Enfield. Kitchener
also had 40 single-barrelled Maxim machine-guns capable of firing 600 rounds a
minute.
Kitchener’s had
17,600 Sudanese and Egyptian troops plus 8,200 British regulars, while the Dervishes
numbered around 60,000. It was estimated
that the Dervishes had about 15,000 captured rifles, so not just armed with
spears and swords, though they did carry them as well.
The battle was a massacre but not perhaps as one sided as
the anti imperialist camp would have us believe, at one point the 21st
Lancers had to charge the Dervish lines taking 71 casualties and MacDonald’s Brigade,
mainly Sudanese had to stand against 3,000 Dervishes attacking from three sides.
However within five hours 11,000 Dervishes were dead and
around 16,000 wounded (and left on the field to their fate) the Anglo-Egyptian
force had 500 dead and wounded.
The reason was certainly superior fire power, mainly the Maxim’s
I would imagine, the Dervishes forces had plenty of rifles (also artillery pieces
and machineguns) but lacked the skill and training to use them to effect. The original plan was to draw Kitchener forward so he
could be attacked from 3 sides but he did not fall for it. Finally the fact that the Dervishes believed
that the banners with Koranic texts they carried made them bullet proof did not
help their cause, even if the rounds merely “passed” through them.
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 21-Apr-2013 at 00:53 |
That was good work for the era. And an acceptable friendly to enemy loss ration.
Had the Dervishes been intellectually capable they would have done well to remember 'Wounded Knee' 1890. Ghost shirts didn't work either.
That's the prob when ya let religious fanaticism over rule the science of Mil Hist. And Excellent tactics and use of modern firepower.
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Nick1986
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Posted: 21-Apr-2013 at 22:05 |
Originally posted by Coritani
“The bolt action
rifles that replaced the Martini Henry put the British at a disadvantage as the
new bullets simply passed through enemies instead of lodging in their bodies
and bringing them down”
Apart from the fact that a .303 round “passing” through a
body would do a lot to bring him down I find the above statement rather strange.
The British at the time of the Battle of Omdurman in 1898 were
equipped with Lee Metford rifles many of which would have been the original .45
calibre (the Martini having been replaced about 10 years before),
or the then new .303 Lee Enfield. Both had a range of about 2,800
yards, obviously less as a section weapon, and a relatively skilled rifleman
could put 10 rounds a minute down range. So fast in fact that few years later
at the beginning of the Great War the Germans were convinced the British had
machineguns when in fact they were just firing the Lee Enfield. Kitchener
also had 40 single-barrelled Maxim machine-guns capable of firing 600 rounds a
minute.
Kitchener’s had
17,600 Sudanese and Egyptian troops plus 8,200 British regulars, while the Dervishes
numbered around 60,000. It was estimated
that the Dervishes had about 15,000 captured rifles, so not just armed with
spears and swords, though they did carry them as well.
The battle was a massacre but not perhaps as one sided as
the anti imperialist camp would have us believe, at one point the 21st
Lancers had to charge the Dervish lines taking 71 casualties and MacDonald’s Brigade,
mainly Sudanese had to stand against 3,000 Dervishes attacking from three sides.
However within five hours 11,000 Dervishes were dead and
around 16,000 wounded (and left on the field to their fate) the Anglo-Egyptian
force had 500 dead and wounded.
The reason was certainly superior fire power, mainly the Maxim’s
I would imagine, the Dervishes forces had plenty of rifles (also artillery pieces
and machineguns) but lacked the skill and training to use them to effect. The original plan was to draw Kitchener forward so he
could be attacked from 3 sides but he did not fall for it. Finally the fact that the Dervishes believed
that the banners with Koranic texts they carried made them bullet proof did not
help their cause, even if the rounds merely “passed” through them.
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Victorian generals believed savages were less likely to stop if merely wounded. A soldier from a European country would seek medical attention, but a fanatic with a spear would carry on until he reached the enemy. Soft lead bullets (including the dumdum round) were introduced with the intent of blowing big holes in enemies. Their use was prohibited by international law, but this didn't stop the British using them in their colonial wars, or ignoring the Geneva Convention and using them against the Germans: http://joshuaandandrew.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/dumdum-rounds.html
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Nick1986
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Posted: 25-Apr-2013 at 19:22 |
The Mad Madhi had a son called Abdullah. This Madhi generally wasn't mad, but served as a puppet ruler until Sudan gained independence. He tried to make himself king, but the British wouldn't let him
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Nick1986
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Posted: 30-Apr-2013 at 20:32 |
The uniform of the Dervishes was based on the Madhi's clothes. The red and blue patches were originally a symbol of poverty and asceticism http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6SigsQe95coC&lpg=PA40&dq=dervish%20war%20sudan&pg=PA40#v=onepage&q&f=false:
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