Putin: Soviet collapse greatest century’s catastrophe!!

"November Revolution of 1917 is the honour of humanity."

The revolution created a heavily nationalistic state whose interest was pure imperialism, disregarding any rights a person today seems to need. The Soviet Union failed on his first day as Uljanov had no idea what Marx was trying to say and therefore his country had nothing to do with communism . Just a terrorist state whose elite was just as bad as the modern American corporate leaders. How long will people believe the long dead lie of the Soviet Union being a socially more legal state. Soviet leaders cared as much about social rights as a rabbit cares of the space. Grrrr.....

"The USSR caused some unfortunate deaths at Stalin's time, but it also defeated the nazis with a lot of sacrifices."

The nazis acctually learned everything from propaganda to creating demise form the USSR, and the USSR helped the nazis get so far with the holocaust and conquering of the Lebensraum. Very easy to forget that part i think.

Kalevipoeg wrote:

"The revolution created a heavily nationalistic state whose interest was pure imperialism, disregarding any rights a person today seems to need. The Soviet Union failed on his first day as Uljanov had no idea what Marx was trying to say and therefore his country had nothing to do with communism . "

Throughout the life of the USSR sometimes the Russian nationalism got stronger, but as a state policy, the USSR never oppressed the identities of its nations, on the contrary it encouraged them.

Imperialism is a phase of capitalism, nothing to do with socialism. You may say expansionist, but not imperialist.

Lenin just adopted Marx's views in a semi-industrialised peripheral capitalist society so it cannot be expected that he would apply just the same things that Marx say about the central states of the capitalist system, i. e. England and France...

Disregarding any rights any rights a person today seems to need?! Do you think that the rights a person need are just voting for some bastards and overconsuming? Then today nobody needs employment, social security, free health care, free education, better working hours, etc...

Kalevipoeg wrote:

"...and the USSR helped the nazis get so far with the holocaust and conquering of the Lebensraum. Very easy to forget that part i think."

You are talking about the pact between Germany and the USSR. The USSR had to gain time for preparing its defence. Without that time it would be tottaly overwhelmed. Thanks to that defence that it could defeat the Nazis. D Day, etc. are just little tales when compared to the size of war on the eastern front.

Illuminati wrote:

"Communists are among the most imperialist in history. They finance guerrila groups, incite revolutions, invade innocent nations, and commit crimes just as much as the western nations they love to point fingers at. I see them as the ultimate hypocrites."

As I mentioned above, its not imperialist, you may say expansionist...

"There may have not been as much inequality and poverty in the USSR, but could Soviet citizens freely leave the USSR??"

At least they travelled money-free. Today they have the right to leave the country, but how many of them have the money for that travel? And thanks to this free movement, their women can come to our country for prostituting! How tragic and embarrassing for humanity... 

"Could they openly and publicy criticize their govt??"

You can publicly critise Bush, but he continues killing people in Iraq... 

Communism is not flawed, men are flawed.

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^  Well said.

Kotumeyl wrote: "Throughout the life of the USSR sometimes the Russian nationalism got stronger, but as a state policy, the USSR never oppressed the identities of its nations, on the contrary it encouraged them."

Indeed? That must be why we had to sing Russian songs on our National Song festival that has gathered hundreds of thousands of Estonians together since 1869. under one banner to sing folk songs. But the Soviets had to fill even that with some brainwashing songs that would even creep Hitler out. But acctually made me laugh when i saw it on TV. Russian was compulsory and everyone had to learn Russian, nobody of the Russians ever learned Estonian, Latvian and so on. There was no supporting of different cultures. Everything slowly Russiafied. The leader of the Estonian Communist state (the ENSV) who came to power in 1978., couldn't even speak a word of our native language. Once a year he attempted to say something in Estonian when the 1st May celebrations were in town. Pityful acctually.

There was also mixing of nations. Russians were brought in everywhere as workers. Not a good way of keeping alive different cultures huh. And about equality: When the Russians came in by hundreds of thousands to a country where the natives (Estonians) numbered a mere million, the Russians were given immidiate accomodations, but Estonians were put on standby. Estonians were second rated citizens whose needs were not state priority. Entire towns were filled with Russian populations in many cases. My grandmother and uncle live in Kohtla-J�rve, a city where to this day 80% are Russians. Russians were prefered everywhere, every day.

Although Stalin was Georgian and honored his native cooking, singing and wine - he was utterly pro-Russian in the way of spreading culture across the USSR. I seem to remember that he more than once kept his cronies from speaking their native languages, like Beria, or Mikoyan for example and ordered Russian to be spoken in the USSR.

The Soviet Union leaders had created a new type of man - a better person that had better morals, ethics and surpassed every other man, other than a fellow bolshevik. The Soviet leaders themselves thought of themselves as the prime examples. The Molotov family for example is somewhat as the Goering or Goebbels family in Hitlers Germany - a model family. All of this was totally equivalent to Hitlers uber-mensch (did i spell it right), the Arian race madness. There was little room for nationalism or for different nations at all.

Venestamine - Russiafication is a common word known by most Estonians who are now rid of it, at last.

Kotumeyl wrote: "You are talking about the pact between Germany and the USSR. The USSR had to gain time for preparing its defence. Without that time it would be tottaly overwhelmed. Thanks to that defence that it could defeat the Nazis. D Day, etc. are just little tales when compared to the size of war on the eastern front."

And about the fact that the USSR trained nazi officers, helped to put together airplanes for Hitler and favouring of its policies as it was, in Stalins eyes, something that prevented the Westerm powers of attacking the USSR. Stalin had many delusions you know.

Stalingrad happened due to the incompatance of the USSR, why does everyone only put pressure on its heroic victory, its a half truth this way.

Kotumeyl wrote: "Disregarding any rights any rights a person today seems to need?! Do you think that the rights a person need are just voting for some bastards and overconsuming? Then today nobody needs employment, social security, free health care, free education, better working hours, etc..."

I don't think anyone would choose the USSR  over todays Scandinavian countries.

And nobody likes KGB snoops watching over their shoulders over every so called "suspicious action" . And am i wrong when saying that the USSR had camps to send differently thinking people to, up to the 1980's? 

And atleast now i can go to a store and buy meat products, instead of walking into a store during Soviet time and see just half store full of one type of veggies which acctually was the case way too often. And i don't have to have relatives or friends as storekeepers to get hands on some sausage or meat for birthdays.

"I don't say that the USSR was a heaven but I'm against degrading all of its accomplishments."

All it accomplished here, was creating xenophobia towards Russians and funny stories and anecdotes about Soviet stupidity. And then there are of course the large number of elderly Russians who they forgot to take along across the eastern border when their country shattered under the weight of fredom. And those elderly Russians are still under a seventy year long propaganda rush! Really dandy to see this mob on TV on the May 9th every year. Thank you very much.

"Was learning Estonian banned?"

No.

"Even the smallest ethnic minorities had their own autonomous administrations, at least nominally. Many people all over the world lacks even these."

And only nominally it remained, remains and will remain for the near future.

"of course there were Russian nationalists and this isn't an adorable thing but Russian was the lingua franca of the Eastern bloc."

Russian nationalism was the state policy, certainly not on paper, but it was therre for a person who lived it for half a century.

"On the other hand you are talking about the variety of goods you can consume, as an example of freedom. I know a lot of people who cannot have medical care because they have no money. They even don't have the freedom to live. There are many people who cannot find even a dry bread. Just because of you lacked some luxury of finding a variety of goods you shouldn't degrade what the November Revolution gave to the world."

Having normal food like bread, cheese, milk or meat on your table is a right aswell. How long do those, or excuse me, THAT veggie last? Having free healthcare was wonderful, but todays medicine is a business and therefore, life has a price now. Greed is prospering in capitalism, but it was just as powerful during the timefrmae from Uljanov to Gorbatschev among the bolsheviks. It prospered during the USSR only the people weren't allowed to see it, or allowed to talk about it. The Soviet elite was just as todays - greedy, fancy cars, government cash for personal joy, pink poodles on fat mens laps and so on.

"Just because of you lacked some luxury of finding a variety of goods you shouldn't degrade what the November Revolution gave to the world."

It resulted in a government and a country, where a former peasant, a prisoner, a murderer, a craftsman instantly got to a high ranking job which he wasn't qualified for and used his newly found authority for personal pleasures of degrading his fellow countrymen for personal fun. It resulted in a cleansing of the society where everybody was a target without even caring who you were killing, starving to death. It resulted in a new way of terror that man has difficulty finding words to describe. It resulted also in a mass hysteria and hypnosis of the new country of terror and hubris - similar of what Hitler created in 1933. 

I WOULDN'T ACCEPT FREE HEALTHCARE IF COUNTLESS MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WERE MURDERED, AMONG MANY MY OWN KINSMEN, DUE TO MADNESS BY THE SAME ADMINISTRATION.

Yes, ideals are wonderful, but they would have been just as wonderful without the revolution and waste of i don't know how many tens of millions of people.

And about medicine - a modern business. Medical companies of the west would keep the vaccine for AIDS from reaching the people if they didn't get their dollars first. Poor people are victims of a business of life and death. My grandmother needs about three or four different medicines, but she told me that she only buys one, because she can't afford more. Medical company holders or leaders or who ever they are, are probably as wealthy as oil magnates.

I don't see medicine as a humane industry in the west.

Good to agree with someone!

Not much else to talk about anymore, or what...?

Well, i don't even have a clear political preference really.

Maybe if we don't keep talking about the USSR's fall, the subject will be closed or we banned.