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Vietnam mummy mystery

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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Vietnam mummy mystery
    Posted: 13-Jun-2012 at 20:23

Egypt is not the only country with mummies. The Tibetans dry out the corpses of dead monks with candles and the Vietnamese embalmed their dead, although the exact technique they used remains a mystery
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  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2012 at 23:36
I'm having a hard time figuring out where the mystery is. Is there an article you can link to? So the Vietnamese embalmed their dead. Yes, they adopted Chinese culture between 700 and 900 A.D. They likely buried their dead before that, assuming that their tribal practices (and yes, they were likely tribal peoples then) matched those of the Muong people, their closest genetic relatives. 
Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2012 at 23:41
Is there any evidence of self mummification going on here?
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2012 at 09:19
The "mystery" is the method of embalming the ancient Vietnamese used. Did they pack the corpse with salt, like the Egyptians, or dry it out in a room full of candles like the Chinese?

Edited by Nick1986 - 15-Jun-2012 at 09:19
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2012 at 10:23
Secrets of Vietnamese mummies explained

The secrets behind mummies found in Vietnam are being explained in a new book by Nguyen Lan Cuong. Cuong talked about his research in this area over the past 30 years.

Ass. Prof. Nguyen Lan Cuong (middle) and the mummy of Buddhist monk Vu Khac Minh at the Dau Pagoda, Ha Tay.

 
Among the types of embalmment in Vietnam, what is most interesting to you and international paleoanthropologists?
 
There are two types of mummies in Vietnam. The first are mummies embalmed in inner and outer coffins and the second are mummies in the form of statues.
 
The most impressive type are the statue mummies because China also has mummies embalmed in coffins, even dating back 2,000 years ago. In Vietnam they are dated back to the Le Dynasty, around over 300 years only.
 
The statue mummies in Vietnam are also 300 years old but they are unique because they were embalmed using Vietnamese techniques. The dead bodies were embalmed using Vietnamese paint, Vietnamese cloth and soil.
 
It is a unique technique that helps maintain the dead and is only seen in this part of the world
 
The 200-page “Secrets behind mummies of bonzes’ is among the most well-researched book about paleoanthropology in Vietnam. The author used folk stories that have been told for hundreds of years. The book also includes more than 200 photos of the mummies of bonzes, the excavation and preservation process of mummies in dozens of year.
I took foreign visitors to admire the mummies of Vu Khac Minh and Vu Khac Truong at the Dau Pagoda. Both said they had never seen anything like it anywhere else.
 
Do Vietnamese scientists have methods to preserve these statue mummies?
 
Open to the environment, these mummies are harmed through oxidation. To preserve the mummies, we make glass boxes which we seal and blow nitrogen inside through a valve. We change the nitrogen every 2-3 years.
 
Besides statue mummies, could you talk about the process of excavation, research and maintenance of the mummy of King Le Du Tong?
 
The tomb of King Le Du Tong was unveiled in a hill named Rung Cam (Forbidden Forest) in Bai Trach village, Xuan Giang commune, Tho Xuan district, in the central province of Thanh Hoa in May 1958. But until April 1964, the tomb was excavated and the mummy was brought to Hanoi for research. This is a coffin mummy. The dead body is around 1.49m in height. The lower abdomen was a little swollen. When researchers pressed on the lower abdomen they felt gas and water inside.
 
Researchers still wonder about embalming techniques applied to King Le Du Tong and other mummies. The biggest question is how to prevent air. Mummies always look like drowned corpses at first but only five minutes after the coffins are opened, they turn pale.  
 
Do you have any way to preserve coffin mummies that you have excavated?
 
No, not at all. So we decide to put mummies into new coffins and bury them immediately whenever we find a mummy. If we had funds, we would go to China to learn their mummy preservation techniques. In Vietnam, we only excavate mummies for research and then bury them again.
http://www.lookatvietnam.com/2009/12/secrets-of-vietnamese-mummies-explained.html


Edited by TheAlaniDragonRising - 15-Jun-2012 at 10:29
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2012 at 19:25
Sounds like the Vietnamese mummies were also dried out with candles. This monk was coated in red lacquer after his death almost 400 years ago:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BW1pmW5NuawC&lpg=PT42&dq=vietnam%20mummy&pg=PT42#v=onepage&q&f=false
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  Quote okamido Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2012 at 17:26
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  Quote okamido Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2012 at 17:42
They also have extensive mummies in the Philippines. There are a multitude of caves in the Kabayan area, which is located in the Benguet Province, in the Northern Philippines.
Within a great deal of these caves, many mummies have been found. Dating has been inconclusive as some are dated to 1200 ce, and others being thought to date back as far as 2000 bce. Consisting of mainly chiefs and other "VIPs"(and families), these mummies are of great cultural significance, and great value on the black market, as many have disappeared over the years.
 
 
 
tattoos on back of mummy
 
Kabayans mummies
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2012 at 15:24
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Jade_burial_suit_in_Henan_Provincial_Museum.jpg/800px-Jade_burial_suit_in_Henan_Provincial_Museum.jpg
The ancient Chinese believed jade could preserve the dead. The royal family were buried in special jade suits, but most have been destroyed by grave robbers


Edited by Nick1986 - 18-Dec-2012 at 15:26
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  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2012 at 22:48
Nick, I don't mean to be pain, but regarding the mummy in question here: 400 years is not 'ancient'. Four hundred years ago Vietnam was split between the Nguyen and Trinh war lords, paying lip service to the King of Vietnam (actually, Dai Viet) but otherwise governing their lands as they saw fit.  A Chinese war lord named Mac Cuu governed what is today the Mekong Delta, then the provinces of lower Cambodia known as Kampuchea Krom. 

All this merely means that it was the early modern historical period, and not 'ancient'. The Vietnamese were trading with the Portuguese, Spanish, and Dutch, in addition to the Japanese and Chinese, and the Thai's were seeking to grab the Mekong Delta before the Vietnamese did.

And, oh, the Cham peoples who inhabited the coasts of Central Vietnam were in fact genetically and culturally related to the peoples of the Philippines, Malaya, and Indonesia, and in the process of adopting Islam.


Edited by lirelou - 21-Dec-2012 at 22:50
Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2012 at 19:30
Maybe 400 years is not that "ancient," but it is a long time ago. Are you suggesting this Chinese warlord introduced mummification to the Vietnamese?
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  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2012 at 11:10
To repeat"

"All this merely means that it was the early modern historical period, and not 'ancient'."
Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
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