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Nick1986
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Topic: Romans vs Samurai Posted: 12-Apr-2012 at 21:02 |
A Roman legion faces off against an equally sized force of Samurai. Who wins?
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Nick1986
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Posted: 13-Apr-2012 at 19:58 |
RomansLorica segmentata armor Gladius Pilum Scutum shield Sling SamuraiBrass scale armor Katana Longbow Naginata spear Kanabo club
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Toltec
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Posted: 15-Apr-2012 at 03:09 |
Originally posted by Nick1986
Katana Naginata spear
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technically the Yari is the spear and the Naganita a pole arm. The Yari would be the weapons most troops carried.
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Nick1986
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Posted: 15-Apr-2012 at 21:34 |
Who would you put your money on Toltec? Both the Romans and Japanese had advanced steel swords: the pattern welded katana and the Noricum gladius
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Toltec
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Posted: 16-Apr-2012 at 09:49 |
Japanese swords weren't pattern welded as explained here, http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31460 they used the technique that directly preceeded pattern welding. The early Romans used a similar technique of composite soft and hard steel the Japanese used and the later Romans pattern welded. So there gladius in the early period was as good as a katana and in the late period better.
Japanese were primarily horse archers with ranks of speamen. Romans met many of these kinds of troops in the east and did badly against horse archers and ate spearmen for breakfast. When they met armies like this on the battlefield in the open they mostly lost but did well on closed ground. So there's your answer, depends on the battlefield.
Edited by Toltec - 16-Apr-2012 at 09:51
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Nick1986
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Posted: 19-Apr-2012 at 19:23 |
Good answer
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Nick1986
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Posted: 25-Apr-2012 at 20:36 |
The Romans' superior tactics might give them the edge over Samurai ferocity. To counter the horse-archers they could link their shields together to form a "tortoise" while driving a wedge through the spearmen
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Toltec
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Posted: 25-Apr-2012 at 21:29 |
That's more a movie move, in history it was only used as an arrow defence well away from the enemy. If a tortoise contact enemy troops it would be slaughtered, the Romans inside would be defenceless and surrounded. Roman infantry were trained to form wedge formation and used this to drive holes through enemy ranks
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Nick1986
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Posted: 01-Jun-2012 at 19:03 |
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TITAN_
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Posted: 16-Jul-2012 at 06:08 |
With a little help from Macedonian sarisas, the Romans could win this. Without it, I am not so sure...
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Nick1986
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Posted: 18-Jul-2012 at 19:45 |
There's nobody else involved: just two equal-sized groups of Romans and Samurai
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Posted: 03-Aug-2012 at 14:06 |
Depends on the era the Roman Legion and the Samurai army comes from. Roman armies could range anywhere from about 509 BC during the birth of the Republic to 1453 AD during the fall of Constantinople. Samurai have a similar problem, spanning from the 12th century Gempei War to their 1873 dissolution with the Meiji Reforms. Do the Romans have access to auxilia? What auxilia? Do the samurai have ashigaru?
Let's say for this case that the Romans use a late Republican/early Imperial legions with auxilia while the Japanese use a similarly sized Sengoku period army (without firearms) comprised of many samurai and a main bulk of ashigaru. The battlefield is clear with a plain field with minimal hills. Judging from the pictures, this should be appropriate (though the Romans during this time probably used chain mail).
In the infantry battle, the legion would probably prevail but with significant losses. Legionary pila would be devastating in the opening stages of a battle and the samurai would probably not be able to hold against the Roman's disciplined CQC from the front for too long. However, it is important to note that during Sengoku Jidai, Japanese armies focused on drilled ashigaru yari pike walls not unlike the phalangites of the Macedonians and Diadochi. While I don't believe that the ashigaru would be enough to trounce the legion, I think that they could effectively pin and hold them off in the center allowing for the more heavily armed samurai to take advantage of any openings or flanks.
In range, the Japanese have a slight overall advantage due to their love of longbows both on foot and on horse. This generally surpasses Roman slingers and bowmen (though composite bow armed auxilia might do okay). Romans have superior siege weapons like scorpions, but with this army there probably wouldn't be a significant enough amount to overturn the samurai archers.
The cavalry battle really depends on the composition of the Roman auxilia since Roman cavalry at this time period sucked. Samurai field superior horse archers and light/medium cavalry. The samurai wouldn't have charging heavy lancers like they do in mainland Asia and Europe, but this wouldn't really be much of a disadvantage against the stirrup-less Romans and most of their auxiliaries.
Overall verdict: pyrrhic victory for the samurai. The Sengoku army wins both the cavalry battle and the ranged skirmish which is necessary to defeat the slowly prevailing legions in the center. With the barrage of missile fire and danger of encirclement by the samurai cavalry, the Romans would probably be forced to retreat.
Edited by Boboknight - 03-Aug-2012 at 14:17
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orion
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Posted: 06-May-2014 at 15:31 |
Honestly, it can be almost definitely agreed on that individually, the samurai are superior to a legionaire. However, it should also be taken into account that romans are known for their teamwork, and were much, much more structured than any other army while the roman republic, or empire existed. So taking this into account, using flat ground, and taking each army to be 5000 strong of infantry 200 strong cavalry, and 200 strong archers, we can deduce the general results. the samurai archers were better, but the tetsudo formation would minimize casualties, and waste the archers arrows. The roman archers would initially have the advantage, but, due to lack of skill, would lose the advantage as the samurai army is an army of individuals so they are more wide spread. Verdict: tie Then it is the cavalries turn. Cavalry on cavalry, samurai wins, but take enormous damage, so the damage that they do to the roman infantry is again minimized due to their previous battle. Verdict: Samurai Finally, the meet and potatoes. Infantry on infantry. It should be agreed on that the samurai were known for being very good at individualistic style fighting, so their onslaught would initially have the upper hand on the romans. But here is the kicker. Rome is not only superior to the world with their military teamwork, they are also tried and tested against individualistic fighters like the powerful celts, the elegant greeks, and the flowing persians, not to mention all the other places they fought and conquered. So, after the initial shock, the legion would muster, let loose their pila, and begin methodiacally pushing the samurai acrossed the plain, tiring them out while the romans superior endurance would allow them to keep going for much, much longer, eventually decimating the samurai completely, as the samurai bravely never surrender
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