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Race of Turkish people

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  Quote Venkytalks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Race of Turkish people
    Posted: 20-Jan-2013 at 15:08
I was talking mostly about birds and animals in which races would breed true despite overlap of territory because of behavioral pattern. Like with quails.

Also historical rather than current practices of humans
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  Quote Venkytalks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2013 at 15:13
I was mostly talking about birds and animal races which would breed true despite territorial overlap. Like quails and bulbuls.

And humans in historic than current context. For example a European marrying outside his ethnic group would produce a disadvantaged offspring in 1900 but not today.


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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2013 at 15:15
Well, among the animal life "kinds" rather that "races" s the used term, AFAIK.
As for humans, historically as currently, marriages, let alone sex, across ethnc lines is the standard, that's why we have all those different genetic strands in every given ethnos. This, if at all an argument, is one for lack of races rather that their existence.
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2013 at 15:28
Originally posted by Venkytalks

I was mostly talking about birds and animal races which would breed true despite territorial overlap. Like quails and bulbuls.

And humans in historic than current context. For example a European marrying outside his ethnic group would produce a disadvantaged offspring in 1900 but not today.



This s a cultural disadvantage, not a anthropological one. The Europeans never had never any qualms of sleeping partners from different ethnic group, hence we have the populatpn of Latin America as it is.
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  Quote Venkytalks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2013 at 14:37
Originally posted by Don Quixote

Originally posted by Venkytalks

I was mostly talking about birds and animal races which would breed true despite territorial overlap. Like quails and bulbuls.

And humans in historic than current context. For example a European marrying outside his ethnic group would produce a disadvantaged offspring in 1900 but not today.



This s a cultural disadvantage, not a anthropological one. The Europeans never had never any qualms of sleeping partners from different ethnic group, hence we have the populatpn of Latin America as it is.

Having sex and having a family are two different things. Most children prosper in a family system. Offspring outside the family system tend to be despised as b**tards even within the same community. Half breeds of two different communities are despised by both the communities and find it difficult to start their own family. Most have their mixed genes lost from reproductive disadvantage - talking here of hundreds of years and more ago when such people would not find a marriage partner from either of their communities.

Sometimes a despised community amongst a multiethnic background is severely disadvantaged. The Hazara community of Afghanistan are an example, also Gypsies in most of history and tribes notified in colonial times as criminal tribes in India. 
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2013 at 10:16
Venkytalks, how bad is the caste discrimination in modern India? I've read dark skinned people (Dalits) used to get the worst jobs and couldn't work their way up before independence
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  Quote Venkytalks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2013 at 11:45
Caste discrimination was terrible in the past. Even now it is there in the villages where a billion people live.

In cities people dont really care much about caste. It is more a rich poor situation with all poor people having a tough time. Caste has little to do with race or skin color because all look more or less same. But the stereotype is that higher castes have slightly lighter skin tone and sharper ffeatures. 


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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2013 at 13:53
Originally posted by Venkytalks

Caste discrimination was terrible in the past. Even now it is there in the villages where a billion people live.

In cities people dont really care much about caste. It is more a rich poor situation with all poor people having a tough time. Caste has little to do with race or skin color because all look more or less same. But the stereotype is that higher castes have slightly lighter skin tone and sharper ffeatures. 


I was aware that in rural settings that the caste system was still prevalent, Venkytalks, but I guess like many had gone along with the stereotype you were talking about regarding the features of those in higher castes. Do you have more information on this, Venkytalks, to enlighten us more on this subject?  
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  Quote Venkytalks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2013 at 08:27
Actually apprearance of people in India depends on geographical location. 

Dark skin is better suited for India protecting against skin cancer. So those people who have evolved longer within India will keep getting darker.

More recent arrivals from Central Asia tend to have lighter skin tone and these are more concentrated in Punjab and nearby northern areas regardless of caste.

As you get further away from Punjab, people from the so called "higher" castes would tend to look more like the Punjabi people. This trend will get weaker as you get further and further away from Punjab, until you reach Tamil Nadu where most people from almost all castes would look similar and have darker skin and coarser features.

So a person from a supposedly lower caste in Punjab would have more central asian features and skin than a person from a supposedly higher caste from Tamil Nadu, where apart from Brahmins (some of whom are more recent arrivals from 1200 to 1800 AD, being displaced from looted temples of North India by muslim invasion) everyone would look the same. 

Punjab was invased in succession by Aryans (1200BC), Persians (500BC), Greeks (300BC), Shakas (200BC), Parthians (150BC), Kushans (100BC), Huns (500AD), Afghans (1200 AD), Mongols (briefly and not in strength 1250-1300 AD), Tamerlane (1400 AD), Afghans (Mughals) 1500 AD and Persians (Nadir Shah) 1750 AD. 

(Just approximate dates)


Brahmins from southern states would have a longer tradition of learning than from other states, because the deep south was never invaded by the Muslims though most pre-British learning was religious in nature. Except for Malik Kaufar's raid of Kanchipuram and the brief occupation of Kanchipuram by Tipu Sultan, the deep south was relatively free of invasions, disruptions and looting of temples and centers of learning. Fighting between Hindus spared these centers as was the norm in north India as well until Muslim invasion. But a little north of Tamil Nadu, there were muslim invasions in north Karnataka and North Andra Pradesh.

However, people from Brahmin, Kshatriya and Business castes of north India will also have a long tradition of learning and do well in school, but being from invaded areas, will have a more practical and down to earth attitude on learning and many will be good in business, unlike the Brahmins of south India.

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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2013 at 08:40
Venkytalks, how do you account for the skin of peoples such as the Chinese, who also live in conditions with a great deal of sun light?
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  Quote Venkytalks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2013 at 11:14
As you go from south to north from indonesia to japan skin gets whiter progressively. Labourers in china working in sun have darker skin

You need whiter skin to make vitamin d. So it is a trade off.

Blond people of norway and iceland with higher ultraviolet have greater tanning tendency to protect the skin
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2013 at 15:26
I want to add an interesting but often overlooked angle to the question of Turks. 

We are comparing people living in Turkey, Azerbaijan, Iran, Caucasus, Central Asia, Western Chine on todays standards. 

ie we assume that everybody looked as they do now back then. 

We aren't taking into account that the Mongolian empire swept across historic Turkic areas in Central Asia after the Turkish migration began and drove it into overdrive when their armies started overrunning the region. 

Even in Central Asia there are major differences, for example people in Turkmenistan look more similar to people in Turkey and Azerbaycan than Kazakistan. If you consider Oghuz Turks they actually have many similarities however, look wise differences to Qipchaks. 


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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2013 at 19:20
Originally posted by Venkytalks

As you go from south to north from indonesia to japan skin gets whiter progressively. Labourers in china working in sun have darker skin

You need whiter skin to make vitamin d. So it is a trade off.

Blond people of norway and iceland with higher ultraviolet have greater tanning tendency to protect the skin
You hardly need whiter skin, Venkytalks, to make vitamin d, although there maybe a greater need for vitamin d in certain climates where people may have lighter skin, for the synthesis of calcium. A diet poorer in vitamin d will also result in a population with lighter skin too, which may have come about as a result of farming after man emerged out of Africa, or at least developed into dietary habits containing lower amounts of vitamin d. Also a study into the SLC24A5 gene suggests that this maybe the case as mutations occurred at around the right time in our evolution when this migration was taking place. 
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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