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Thighs in Myths and Legends

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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Thighs in Myths and Legends
    Posted: 06-Mar-2012 at 18:46
Here is a story from Geoffrey of Monmouth’s History of the Kings of Britain, Book 12.
It concerns the reign of King Cadwalla (in this story placed roughly 628-674 AD), and the activities of his nephew, Brian.
I have never come across the mentioned cannibalism in any commentaries, and wondered what anyone makes of it. Do any similar stories occur in other legends/myths.
I’m covering the whole of Book 12 so as to put it in context, and if any other motifs spring to mind.

Book 12
Cadvan, King of the Britons, and Ethelfrid, King of the Saxons, divide Briton between them; Britons in the South and Saxons in the North, but with Ethelfrid subordinate. Ethelfrid deserts his pregnant wife, and she goes to the court of Cadvan and bears a son, Edwin. Cadvan also has a son about the same time, Cadwalla, and the two are brought up together and educated at the court of King Salomon of Brittany. Cadvan and Ethlefrid die, and the sons inherit their fathers’ kingdoms. Edwin then asks for a crown and a court of his own in Northumberland, and Cadwalla agrees.

Chapter 2
“And when they had begun a treaty upon this subject by the river Duglas, that the matter might be adjusted according to the advice of their wise counsellors; it happened that Cadwalla was lying on the other side of the river in the lap of a certain nephew of his, whose name was Brian. While ambassadors were negotiating between them, Brian wept, and shed tears so plentifully, that the king's beard and face were wet with them. The king, imagining that it rained, lifted up his face, and seeing the young man in tears, asked him the occasion of his sudden grief. "Good reason," said he, "have I to weep continually, as well as the whole British nation, which has groaned under the oppression of barbarians ever since the time of Malgo, and has not yet got a prince, to restore it to its ancient flourishing state. And even the little honour that it had left is lessened by your indulgence; since the Saxons, who are only strangers, and always traitors to our country, must now be permitted to wear the same crown as you do. For once they shall attain to regal dignity, it will be a great addition to their glory in the country from whence they came; and they will the sooner invite over their countrymen, for the utter extirpation of our race.”

Cadwalla listens to his nephew and pulls out of the negotiations, swearing to kill Edwin if the Saxon ever wore a crown. Edwin, with the help of a Spanish soothsayer and astrologer called Pellitus, fights against Cadwalla and defeats him. Cadwalla flees to Ireland, and then towards Brittany to gain help from King Salomon, but is shipwrecked on the island of Guernsey.

Chapter 4
“Cadwalla was forthwith seized with such grief for the loss of his companions, that for three days and nights together he refused to eat, but lay sick upon his bed. The fourth day he was taken with a very great longing for some venison, and causing Brian to be called, made him acquainted with it. Whereupon Brian took his bow and quiver, and went through the island, that if he could light on any wild beast, he might make booty of it. And when he had walked over the whole island without finding what he was in quest of, he was extremely concerned that he could not gratify his master's desire; and was afraid his sickness would prove mortal if his longing were not satisfied. He, therefore, fell upon a new device, and cut a piece of flesh out of his own thigh, which he roasted on a spit, and carried to the king for venison. The king, thinking it to be real venison, began to eat of it to his great refreshment, admiring the sweetness of it, which he fancied exceeded any flesh he had ever tasted before. At last, when he had fully satisfied his appetite, he became more cheerful, and in three days was perfectly well again. Then the wind standing fair, he got ready his ship, and hoisting sails they pursued their voyage…”

King Salomon agrees to help Cadwalla, but while they are preparing an army, Brian is directed to return to Britain and slay the Spanish magician in case he should divine Cadwalla’s intent.

Chapter 7
“And when with this design he [Brian] had arrived at Hamo's Port, he took upon him the habit of a poor man, and made himself a staff of iron sharp at one end, with which he might kill the magician if he should happen to meet with him. From thence he went to York, where Edwin then resided; and having entered that city joined himself to the poor people that waited for alms before the king's gate. But as he was going to and fro, it happened that his sister came out of the hall, with a basin in her hand, to fetch water for the queen. She had been taken by Edwin at the city of Worcester, when after Cadwalla's flight he was acting his hostilities upon the provinces of the Britons. As she was therefore passing by Brian, he immediately knew her, and, breaking forth into tears, called to her with a low voice; at which the damsel turning her face, was in doubt at first who it could be, but upon a nearer approach discovered it to be her brother, and was near falling into a swoon, for fear that he might by some unlucky accident be known and taken by the enemy. She therefore refrained from saluting him, or entering into familiar discourse with him, but told him, as if she was talking upon some other subject, the state of the court, and showed him the magician, that he was inquiring for, who was at that very time walking among the poor people, while the alms were being distributed among them. Brian, as soon as he had taken knowledge of the man, ordered his sister to steal out privately from her apartment the night following, and come to him near an old church without the city, where he would conceal himself in expectation of her. Then dismissing her, he thrust himself in among the crowd of poor people, in that part where Pellitus was placing them. And the same moment he got access to him, he lifted up his staff, and at once gave him a stab under the breast which killed him. This done, he threw away his staff, and passed among the rest undistinguished and unsuspected by any of the by-standers, and by good providence got to the place of concealment which he had appointed. His sister, when night came on, endeavoured all she could to get out, but was not able; because Edwin, being terrified at the killing of Pellitus, had set a strict watch about the court, who, making a narrow search, refused to let her go out. When Brian found this, he retired from that place, and went to Exeter, where he called together the Britons, and told them what he had done. Afterwards having despatched away messengers to Cadwalla, he fortified the city, and sent word to all the British nobility, that they should bravely defend their cities and towns, and joyfully expect Cadwalla's coming to their relief in a short time with auxiliary forces from Salomon. Upon the spreading of this news over the whole island, Penda, king of the Mercians, with a very great army of Saxons, came to Exeter, and besieged Brian.”

This is the last we hear of Brian, or his sister. Cadwalla lands in Britain, liberates Exeter and defeats Penda, who now allies with him and helps to defeats Edwin’s army [in 633]. King Edwin is slain, followed by Kings Osric and Oswald, Edwin’s successors, before coming to a truce with the next successor, King Oswy.

Chapter 13
“At length, after forty-eight years were expired, that most noble and potent king of the Britons, Cadwalla, being grown infirm with age and sickness, departed this life upon the fifteenth before the kalends of December. The Britons embalmed his body, and placed it with wonderful art in a brazen statue, which was cast according to the measure of his stature. This statue they set up with complete armour, on an admirable and beautiful brazen horse, over the western gate of London, for a monument of the above-mentioned victory, and for a terror to the Saxons.”

Cadwalla was the last successful King of the Britons. His son, Cadwalladar, becomes ill and abandons Britain to famine and pestilence, and, guided by an angel, dies at Rome in 689. Britain is left completely to the Saxons.
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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 20:42
I’ve been wondering whether Brian cutting his own thigh and slaying Pellitus with a spear and then much later the land experiencing pestilence, had any link to the Fisher Kings of Arthurian Romance, keepers of the Holy Grail, descended from a man called Bron, and one of whom, King Pelles, is wounded in the thigh by Sir Balin using the spear of Longinus, resulting in pestilence in the kingdom.
Just coincidence in names, or is there some link between Brian/Balin/Bron & Pelles/Pellitus.

Just an extra bit - In the Mahabharata, the Indian king of Kuru, Shibi Rana, cuts flesh off his own thigh to feed an eagle in order to stop it eating a dove that has sought refuge with the king. But it is all a divine test, and the dove and eagle turn out to be the gods Indra and Dharmaraj, who shed blessings on Shibi Rana for his piety.

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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 20:54
Zeus sew the baby Dionysus in his thigh, after his mother, Selena, burned up /because Hera convinced her to make Zeus appear in front of her in his divine aspect/ and when he was ready to be born took him out. One would think that such an impossible scenario wouldn't come in in human mind, unless is remnant of something older, an ancient Indo-European idea, or something.

I remember a Bulgarian fairy tale in which a boy found an eaglet and fed him with the meat of his thigh to save his life, the eaglet turned divine and so on, I don't remember more; but many ancient mythological motifs are preserved in the fairy tales of any given culture; if the thigh thing is an ancient Indo-European motif, this may mean something more.
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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2012 at 09:32
That Bulgarian fairy-tale is interesting, Don Quixote, as it bears similar motifs to the story about the Indian king in the Mahabharata.

I too remember the myth of Dionysus being sewn up in Zeus' thigh. Presumably Zeus would be depicted slicing his own thigh open, either to insert or extricate the baby. No eating of the thigh-flesh, though.

There is also another thigh birth in Greek mythology - that of Erichthonius. Hephaestus (himself a god with damaged legs, having fallen twice from Mount Olympus) tried to seduce Athena, but she successfully repelled his advances and he ejaculated onto her thigh. Athena wiped the semen off and threw it onto the ground, and from the earth was born Erichthonius. Athena then adopted Erichthonius, acknowledging him as her son, and he became king of Athens (the city named after her).
As a virgin goddess, Athena shouldn't really have had a son, but there he is, in a sense born from her thigh. His birth is called a mystery, half-serpent, born without a mother, and Athena hid him in a box to hide him from the other gods because of her shame and his fearfulness.

Interestingly, both Dionysus and Ericthonius were put in the care of a group of women when they were born, in order to hide them.
Dionysus was either cared for by the nymphs of Mount Nysus, or he was given to King Athamas, his uncle, to be brought up as a girl. Ericthonius was hidden in a box, and entrusted to the daughters of Cecrops, the then king of Athens.
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2012 at 10:53
Originally posted by Sidney

I’ve been wondering whether Brian cutting his own thigh and slaying Pellitus with a spear and then much later the land experiencing pestilence, had any link to the Fisher Kings of Arthurian Romance, keepers of the Holy Grail, descended from a man called Bron, and one of whom, King Pelles, is wounded in the thigh by Sir Balin using the spear of Longinus, resulting in pestilence in the kingdom.
Just coincidence in names, or is there some link between Brian/Balin/Bron & Pelles/Pellitus.

There is thought to be connections between the Arthurian stories and Brittany, so I would say that there is a good chance those connections you have found are so.
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2012 at 12:45
Also found a tale on this site;

http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Mythology/simorgh_story.htm

Its an old Persian tale of a King and three sons, the youngest called Prince Khorshid.

The sons are set to guard a pomegranite tree from a thief, and then to find that thief. But only the youngest son achieves this. The thief is a deava who lives in a kingdom accessed by a well, and has captured great wealth and three beautiful sisters. Khorshid kills the monster and passes the wealth and girls up to his brothers, but he is then abandonded in the well whilst the brothers take the prizes home.

Trapped in the underworld, Khorshid seeks the help of the Simorgh, to fly him home. He saves the lives of her chicks, so she promises to carry him if he will feed her on the wing. They set off with seven bulls' carcases, but after eight days the meat runs out, so Khorshid cuts off a portion of his own thigh to feed her.

The web text reads;
"Prince Khorshid cut off some flesh from his thigh and put it in Simorgh's beak. Simorgh immediately realized it was human flesh. She held it gently until they reached their destination. As soon as he dismounted, the prince urged Simorgh to fly back at once but, knowing he could not walk without limping, she refused and with her saliva restored the piece of his flesh to his thigh. Having learned how brave and unselfish the prince was, she gave him three of her feathers, saying that if he were ever in need of her he should burn one of them, and she would instantly come to his aid. With that she flew away."

Khorshid enters his home city and finds that while his brothers are about to marry two of the maidens, the third maiden will only marry a man on condition that he can bring her "a golden cock from whose bill gems will pour when it sings; she also wants a golden lantern which is self-illuminated and burns for ever."

Khorshid burns one of the feathers, the Simorgh returns and acquires those treasures for him. He marries the maiden, later becomes king, and they all live happily ever after. (What happened to the other two feathers isn't mentioned.)



The story also appears in Romania as 'Praslea the Brave and the Golden Apples', in Bulgaria as 'The Three Brothers and the Golden Apple', and reputedly in many other Eastern European languages - steaming from a Kurdish past.
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2012 at 13:25
I found on the net a variation of the "The Three Brothers and the Golden Apple", http://www.scribd.com/doc/6749816/The-Three-Brothers-and-the-Golden-Apple as usual with the fairy tales there are different variations of it. Here the 3rd brother, the hero, goes through several trials/adventures, starting with the apple, and ending with be8ing in another world, in the castle of the "lamia" /the dragon who guarded the apple, abducted girls, etc/, on the wings of an eagle. He had to slaughter 2 bullocks, and every time when the eagle asked hei he gave him a big chunk f meat; the last time he meat was over, so the brother cut a piece of mean from his feet, and gave it to the eagle /feet or all places...there isn't much meat on one's foot!-I think the original variation was with  a thigh, since the thigh is the most fleshy part of the human body/. Anyway, when they got in the human world the eagle told the hero - "go home, you are home", and he said that he cannot walk because he cut meat from his feet to feed the eagle - then the eagle touched the feet of the hero with his feathers and the feet healed.

So  basically the same motifs - eagle, feeding with human meat, as a trial for the hero to see if he is worthy. In another version of the story I heard the eagly recognized that this is human meat and put in under his tongue, then when they got to the human world he spat it out an put it back in hero's leg, and it healed.


Edited by Don Quixote - 10-Mar-2012 at 13:33
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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2012 at 11:35
In Saxo Grammaticus’ 13th Century “History of The Danes” Book 7, is the tale of Prince Hather of Jutland who is under threat from a great warrior called Grimmi, who want Hather’s daughter, Thorild, as wife. Hather declares that whoever vanquishes Grimmi can marry Thorild himself, so the champion Halden takes up the challenge.

When Halden first draws his sword, Grimmi blunts it by just looking at it, so Halden has to draw a new sword, with which he slices off part of Grimmi’s shield. Grimmi returns the blow by shattering Halden’s shield to pieces, but Halden then cuts off Grimmi’s sword hand.

“Nevertheless Grimmi transferred his weapon to his left hand and pierced his assailant’s thigh, taking vengeance for his maimed body with a paltry wound. The victorious Halden gave his vanquished foe the opportunity of ransoming the little life he had left…” which is viewed by Saxo as most praiseworthy.

Halden marries Thorhild and had a son Asmund “from whom the Norwegian kings are proud to be descended.”

Is there some motif here that a wound in the thigh turns a man virtuous? Is this reflected in the tales of self-sacrifice by princes/kings who allow their thighs to be eaten and are then rewarded with blessings.

The name of the defeated warrior in Saxo's story is Grimmi. Grim and Grimnir are both names for the Scandinavian god Odin.

Could this be a story about Halden fighting and prevailing over the god Odin, who then damages the mortal’s thigh and brings the fight to an end. This is very similar to the story in Genesis 32; 24-32 where Jacob fights with God, and God, unable to win, touches the hollow of Jacob’s thigh, blesses Jacob, and the fight ends.

It’s an interesting parallel, although the Hebrews are then refuse to eat the thigh, and I’m unsure how that would relate to the other tales of allowing another to eat your thigh makes you virtuous.

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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2012 at 19:15
Just an aside to the original post and a digression from my interest in the thigh story; regarding Pellitus, the Spanish soothsayer, astrologer and adviser to King Edwin of Northumbria.

According to Bede's "History of the English Church and People" (written 731 AD), King Edwin was a Christian at the time of his death, so a soothsayer is unlikely to have been advising the King. But the man who converted Edwin to Christianity (in 627)and did act as his adviser was Bishop Paulinus, and Paulinus had been sent to Edwin, when Edwin requested to marry the daughter of the already Christian King of Kent, on advice from Bishop Mellitus.

Paulinus + Mellitus = Pellitus?

It would be a neat fit, but neither Paulinus nor Mellitus came from Spain, and neither were slain by a spear. Both came from Italy and seeem to have died of old age.
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2012 at 21:53
this may be connected with the idea of sacrifice - in Homer  bull's thighs were sacrificed to the gods, not another parts of the bull's body; Leviticus 3:3 talks about sacrificing the fat that is on the thighs /here in the Septuaginta's version/ http://books.google.com/books?id=9GRYAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA105&lpg=PA105&dq=sacrifice+the+thighs&source=bl&ots=tELy1Xby9T&sig=c4Cl7w-nczBcy8DxomChKD3ZT9k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YLVeT77GNbDXiAL8_6HCBA&ved=0CCQQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20the%20thighs&f=false

So, if the thighs for some mysterious reason are fit for the gods, then there must be something special about them; I would think that the willingness to self-sacrifice oneself is what makes one virtuous, and the thigh-meat is just symbolic of sacrifice - like, if god/gods accept only thigh-meat, then this would go for human self-sacrifice as well as for animal one.

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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2012 at 12:48
Originally posted by Sidney

...the Hebrews are then refuse to eat the thigh, and I’m unsure how that would relate to the other tales of allowing another to eat your thigh makes you virtuous.



The Hebrews were forbidden to eat the thigh sinew because it was holy. But to sacrifice your own thigh for another was seen as an act of holiness, in the same way that sacrificing a bull's thigh to God was a holy act.

Edited by Sidney - 13-Mar-2012 at 12:55
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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 10:41
Some wounded thighs In Greek mythology;

Chiron, the centaur renowned for his knowledge and wisdom, gave Peleus a spear, who later gave it to his son Achilles. Achilles led the Achaeans to Troy, but stopped on the way at Mysia. The king of Mysia, Telephus, fought against them and was wounded in the thigh by Achilles’ spear. The wound would not heal, and the Delphic oracle was consulted. The answer was that only the wounder could heal it, so Achilles was persuaded to scrap rust from his spear onto Telephus’ wound, and the wound healed. Achilles was later killed at Troy by an arrow in his heal.

Prometheus, because he deceived the gods in order to aid mankind, was punished by Zeus and chained to a rock and his liver eaten by an eagle. He is told he can only be released if an immortal god would give his life for him. Chiron is accidently poisoned by an arrow in the thigh, foot or leg (accounts vary) by Heracles. The pain is incurable, and rather than live forever in pain, Chiron relinquishes his immortality to atone for Prometheus’ crime. Chiron, on his death, was set in the sky as the star constellation Sagittarius – the archer, which in astrology rules the thighs.

Heracles has a few interweaving links here;
He, Peleus and Achilles were all pupils of Chiron.
He was the father of Telephus, king of Mysia, who was wounded by Achilles spear.
He had already slain the centaur, Nessus, with a poisoned arrow, for abducting Deinaira, Heracles’ bride.
He later shot the centaur Chiron with a poisoned arrow, leading Chiron to sacrifice his life for Prometheus.
He shot the eagle that was tormenting Prometheus, who was being punished for giving fire to mankind.
He was later tormented by a cloak soaked in the poisoned blood of Nessus, and set himself on fire in order to die.

Just goes to show how complicated Greek myths can be – weaving characters and motives in and out to create complex interactions and links. I always find it fascinating.

The only eating going on in all this is the eagle, the symbol of Zeus, eating Prometheus’ liver. Now, I could equate Heracles (the son of Zeus) killing the eagle (a symbol of Zeus) with the prophecy that Zeus feared – that his own son would depose him. But I don’t know whether it would roll very far, and is off topic.



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  Quote chriscrz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2012 at 03:10
I have also heard about the relation of some ancient kings to cannibalism. Now God-knows how much of them are true and how much of them myths.
link/site deleted as trolling

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That link has nothing to do with the premise ''of some ancient kings to cannibalism''.
 
It's not even a very good attempt to promote the site which is a glorified version of rag trash exhibitionism in the form of a dubious claim to entertain and or inform...... because had you wanted to do that....... you would have offered up the question of it's entertainment-informational value in the Tavern sub.
 
 
 
So don't pretend to post it again in any other context other then entertainment or with a direct nexus to the thread and context in which you opine. Because if you do... you... will be gone as a troller/spammer. This is the only warning you will get. Period.
 
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Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 30-Aug-2012 at 03:24
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2012 at 20:05
Israelites put their hands on their thighs when making vows
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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