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What is the Achaemenid animal statue?
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What is the Achaemenid animal statue?
    Posted: 20-Jul-2011 at 14:29
An intact statue of a dog made of black marble was found in Persepolis, it is already in Iran Bastan (Ancient Iran) Museum in Tehran:
 
 
 
 
I have read different things about this statue, some say it is not a dog, but a lioness:
 
 
And some other ones say that is a mastiff:
 


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 20-Jul-2011 at 14:32
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opuslola View Drop Down
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2011 at 15:44
Dear Cyrus, I would side with "mam's best friend!"

Just give it the "ear clip!"

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 20-Jul-2011 at 15:45
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Posts: 154 		  Quote PADDYBOY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2011 at 18:37
It could be a molossus ? An ancient dog breed (now extinct) which mastiffs are probably descended from. If memory serves correctly, Alexander the Great owned one of these dogs and greatly admired the breed for its fighting courage.
On the other hand, it may be a Aluant (the dog of Alans) which may also be the ancestor of modern day mastiffs and is said to resemble a modern day caucasian shepherd dog.
There again, it may be a lioness, I don't know 
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2011 at 18:12
I think that the sagging upper jowel (cheek? / lips?), as well as its obvious collar and sitting stance, gives it away. It is a dog!

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 23-Jul-2011 at 18:15
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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2011 at 00:32
or home pet lioness?Here are you are:
http://www.bible-history.com/archaeology/persia/persepolis-lion.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Amulet-pendant_Louvre_Sb3906.jpg
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Posts: 154 		  Quote PADDYBOY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2011 at 16:23
I'm with Ron on this one. I don't think the canines (teeth) are big enough for a lioness. 
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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2011 at 00:50
Interesting facts about ancestor of pitbull,molossus,dog born in incest!
http://www.dog-first-aid-101.com/history-of-the-pit-bull.html
http://pit-bull-awareness-center.christianfunfair.org/ancestry.htm
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Posts: 154 		  Quote PADDYBOY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2011 at 05:02
Interesting links, Medenaywe.

I'll just add to them if I may. When the Romans arrived in Britain, they encountered at least two dog types used be Ancient Britons. A  large and powerful dog similar to a Molossus/Mastiff which the modern day Bulldog is probably descended from and which proved to be more than a match for the Mollosus. The Ancient Britons used these dogs on the battlefield.
They also encountered a small dog type which the Britons used for vermin control which modern day terriers are probably descended from. Whether these two types of dog are both descended from the Molossus/Mastiff is a matter of debate. Bulldogs and Mastiffs are both Bullbreeds and are closely related, tho terriers aren't and may be descended from an entirely different line or even a different breed of wolf altogether. 
It was the crossbreeding of Bulldogs and terriers that resulted in modern day pit bull terriers.
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2011 at 16:14
Actually guys and gals, the breeding of animals in the past is one of the wonders of the world. If you are into looking at paintings, etc., going back into the middle ages, one is constantly seeing representations of dogs, and especially dogs that were the result of long breeding programs.

Thus the very small breeds, seem to have been around for a long time, even in the 16th century or earlier. Since we have good reason to believe that there existed just a few seperate breeds of dogs "Wolves?", in the ancient past, then the creation of the various breeds like Daschounds = Doberman Pincers with short feet, etc., have been around in their current pose, for many centuries.

Just what demand created the need for these special(ists) breeds?

In the case of many animals, it is indeed mankind who played the part of God.

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Posts: 154 		  Quote PADDYBOY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2011 at 09:31
It wasn't "need" alone that caused the variation in dog breeds, Ron. Back in the late 1950s, early 60s, a Russian scientist by the name of Dimiti Belyaev came up with a theory on the domestication of wolves. He got the chance to put his theory into practice and successfuly domesticated wild fox (silver fox) He selected his breeding stock from those that showed least fear of Humans and farther selected their progeny from those who were most friendly towards Humans. Whithin ten generations he had successfuly domesticated the fox.
What took him by surprise, was the variation that began appearing whithin those domesticated fox. They seem to produce a whole range of different hormone levels and as far as I know, no one has yet figured out why.
His work gives an interesting insight to the problems that early man faced when he domesticated the wolf. It would seem that the purpose of line breeding wasn't so much for creating variety whithin the species, but more about preventing too much variety.....  
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2011 at 09:39
The tooth set on the statue is that of a domesticated animal.  The teeth have an inward bent.  A wild dogs tooth set is different, it has an outward bent.
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2011 at 14:05
This is a lion column capital in Persepolis:
 
 
There are obviously some differences between these two, anyway that staue looks strange to me, it has neither cat snout, nor canine ears!!
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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2011 at 14:15
All of us will agree with this statement:Ancients had admired lions so they created their copies.Result was
dog that looks like lion,mastiff.Masters of lion were masters of all.Good for ancient propaganda also!Richard
of Mastiff Hearth is well known to all of us.Approve
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