Islamophobia: the new antisemitism?

The concept is a leftist argument that you often run across. It's a  racist argument. The idea that the west is populated and divided by Whites and non-whites is racist. In the USA, we have whites, non euro whites, blacks, eastern, orient and hispanic peoples. The racist argument says something like 'in 30 years whites will be a minority'. When you read the definition of minority you find that it is a minority to non-whites. That is racist. We are not white and non-white, but several races. it will be a long time, if ever, before the hispanics outnumber euros in the US. Blacks are already behind the hispanics.

Obviously it is a cultural thing, but also race-related since almost all Muslims are not US/EU. I think if these leftists can pull out such a card then perhaps they should consider a long-term solution that involves all these immigrants slowly going back to their homelands. You see, they do not want that either because it is against their interest as well. A lot of menial labour is done by immigrants and also the fact that returning them to their homelands (them willing of course) involves making their homelands an enjoyable place to live in. They would rather have dictators ruling your country, draining resources into trade and other international investment leading to increased illiteracy which leads to cheap labour.

Originally posted by eaglecap Looks like we don't agree my English friend. Playing the victim card when in fact their own persecution of Christians and Jews is far, far, far greater than anything you will find in Europe or America. I can start listing them if you want like from sources like persecution.org. Looking at currents events it is no wonder many Europeans and Americans distrust certain Muslim groups. They need to clean out their own closet first and yes your political and religious beliefs are not my business but it helps me understand more where you are coming from but that is fine. America is my country and a sovereign nation and it is our right to allow whoever we want to enter but anyone who loves America is welcome, Muslim & non-Muslim alike. In the words of Michael Savage we have the right to protect our; borders, language and culture. If they want to assimilate and become Americans then I welcome those Muslims, we also welcome their conttributions. America has had it problems in prejudice but we have come a long way but we are still imperfect but still much better than 40 years ago. Muslims are treated no different than anyone else here and yes you get a few prejudice people but most Americans are very tolerant of them. Black also have their own share of prejudice but once again you play the victim card for them. Most Americans are tolerant and race is not as big of a issue but can we change more –yes. We still have a few intolerant people on, from all races, but they are a minority. The final part of Eagle's argument is wrong: the French ghettos full of poor North African immigrants are no worse than the London council estates. Social class and family connections, not religion or race, determine who can safely enter the ghetto. It was the same 100 years ago in parts of the East End: criminals were safe here as they could shelter in the houses of friends and relatives who had a longstanding mistrust of the authorities. These places are dangerous areas not because of "Muslims" but because there are a lot of angry young men living close together and forming gangs for their own protection I will try and find the time to demonstrate that it is about radical Islam and sharia law. Not all Muslims, of course, support that but I have read enough sources that point to the fact that it is religious in nature. How many are in France illegally? I have Muslim friends in Turkiye and their religion is not a factor to me because they are not in the least extreme. is this tolerance my friend? Saudi Arabia: Eritrean Christian facing death penalty for sharing his faith with Muslims Pakistan: Misunderstanders of Islam tell Christian "convert or die" Bangladesh: Dozens injured as Misunderstanders of Islam protest against women's rights Nigeria: Muslim mob storms three Christian villages, murders at least two people over alleged Qur'an desecration Here is a good video from a Muslim group in America- a group I respect http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpRgqDMrD4M The American Islamic Forum for Democracy http://www.aifdemocracy.org/ another great group of Muslims: http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/

The Europeans have persecuted Jews for far longer and on a much larger scale: expulsons in the Middle Ages, pogroms in Russia and the Holocaust in Germany.
Are these the same Americans who feared communists from the 1950s-90s and whose grandparents were involved in the lynching of blacks? The same Americans who continue to distrust Russia while supporting military dictatorships and insurgents with dubious democratic credentials? Sadly, paranoia has become deeply entrenched in white American society, stemming from fear of the other.
What is American culture? It is a melting pot in which one comes out of many. Why should it just be the Muslims, blacks and Mexicans who are forced to conform to a society created by white colonists? I haven't heard any demands for Irish-Americans to stop celebrating St Patrick's Day, drinking guinness, dancing to traditional music and worshipping the pope. Muslims have the same right to preserve their culture. Over time, they too will integrate and elements of their culture will enter the mainstream
Even a few bigots is too many. Evangelical Christians like Pastor Jones claim Islam is devilish (despite Muslims worshipping the same God and following the teachings of the same prophets). After 9/11 there were demands to put Muslims in internment camps and damage to the property of Arab-Americans. The fact is Islamophobia is far more widespread than your statistics would have me believe: how many hate crimes go unreported? Look at all the reactionaries in the Tea Party attacking Obama on the assumption that because he is black his political agenda is radical, dangerous or "un-American." This is highly amusing as the ancestors of these Mad Hatters massacred the original Americans and stole their land (must be why modern conservatives are so pro-Zionist as the settlers in the West Bank are doing the exact same thing to the Palestinians)
Why is sharia law seen as evil? Because punishments fit the crime? Similar solutions were carried out in our own society, including whippings, mutilation and execution. Islam is not to blame for the implementation of the law any more than Christianity is in early modern states. Earthly rulers were responsible for implementing these laws as they used scripture to consolidate their power. In some instances sharia-type punishments (like Christian church-courts) may be beneficial if applied to crimes not covered by our own laws (such as accusations of adultery or blasphemy within the religious community) and limited to fines of varying degrees of severity

Originally posted by Nick1986 Originally posted by eaglecap [...] The Europeans have persecuted Jews for far longer and on a much larger scale: expulsons in the Middle Ages, pogroms in Russia and the Holocaust in Germany. Are these the same Americans who feared communists from the 1950s-90s and whose grandparents were involved in the lynching of blacks? The same Americans who continue to distrust Russia while supporting military dictatorships and insurgents with dubious democratic credentials? Sadly, paranoia has become deeply entrenched in white American society, stemming from fear of the other. What is American culture? It is a melting pot in which one comes out of many. Why should it just be the Muslims, blacks and Mexicans who are forced to conform to a society created by white colonists? I haven't heard any demands for Irish-Americans to stop celebrating St Patrick's Day, drinking guinness, dancing to traditional music and worshipping the pope. Muslims have the same right to preserve their culture. Over time, they too will integrate and elements of their culture will enter the mainstream Even a few bigots is too many. Evangelical Christians like Pastor Jones claim Islam is devilish (despite Muslims worshipping the same God and following the teachings of the same prophets). After 9/11 there were demands to put Muslims in internment camps and damage to the property of Arab-Americans. The fact is Islamophobia is far more widespread than your statistics would have me believe: how many hate crimes go unreported? Look at all the reactionaries in the Tea Party attacking Obama on the assumption that because he is black his political agenda is radical, dangerous or "un-American." This is highly amusing as the ancestors of these Mad Hatters massacred the original Americans and stole their land (must be why modern conservatives are so pro-Zionist as the settlers in the West Bank are doing the exact same thing to the Palestinians) Why is sharia law seen as evil? Because punishments fit the crime? Similar solutions were carried out in our own society, including whippings, mutilation and execution. Islam is not to blame for the implementation of the law any more than Christianity is in early modern states. Earthly rulers were responsible for implementing these laws as they used scripture to consolidate their power. In some instances sharia-type punishments (like Christian church-courts) may be beneficial if applied to crimes not covered by our own laws (such as accusations of adultery or blasphemy within the religious community) and limited to fines of varying degrees of severity

Most of your post is what is called a "Tu quoque".
There is no use in argumenting in a way that aims to discredit Americans since we have just the same problem in Europe as well.
Justifying the sharia law with similar customs that were usual in Europe hundreds of years ago is really rather a counterargument than anything else.
The last part about accusations of adultery you have to explain in more detail. From how I undestand it I could not disagree more, especially about the blasphemy laws.

So basically you want to override the constitutions if I am not mistaken?

Originally posted by Nick1986 Similar laws were in place in both Britain and America until the late 17th century in the form of church-courts which predate both our constitutions (but whose powers were tightly restricted). These had no official power to punish (with the exception of depriving priests of their position) but they were able to levy fines for petty crimes like slander. They eventually fell into disuse as the crimes they traditionally judged were transferred to the secular courts. However, changes resulted in the legalisation of adultery, meaning the courts no longer punished it as a crime. In the modern age there should be a similar secularised institution (with the option of a cleric to serve as judge should the defendant and plaintiff both request it) to try lawsuits not covered by our existing laws. Failure to punish these crimes has aroused a lot of resentment and caused many to believe our society encourages immorality

You are turning in circles.
300 years ago it was seen as honourable to attack other countries as a political tool.
Should we return to that as well?

There is one part about your post that I agree with though. And that is "They eventually fell into disuse as the crimes they traditionally judged were transferred to the secular courts."
And why did they? Because we have agreed by constitution that it is the state who has to decide about jurisdiction, and not some self-proclaimed people with an ideology.

What you present as enrichment and enhancement of our culture is actually giving a part of the states authority away. And where does this authority stem from? It is granted to the state by the voters, who elect their chosen representatives, not some random spiritual leaders. It is this system that the people living in a democracy have agreed on and that is the fundamental principle of our societies.

Originally posted by Nick1986 Originally posted by eaglecap Looks like we don't agree my English friend. Playing the victim card when in fact their own persecution of Christians and Jews is far, far, far greater than anything you will find in Europe or America. I can start listing them if you want like from sources like persecution.org. Looking at currents events it is no wonder many Europeans and Americans distrust certain Muslim groups. They need to clean out their own closet first and yes your political and religious beliefs are not my business but it helps me understand more where you are coming from but that is fine. America is my country and a sovereign nation and it is our right to allow whoever we want to enter but anyone who loves America is welcome, Muslim & non-Muslim alike. In the words of Michael Savage we have the right to protect our; borders, language and culture. If they want to assimilate and become Americans then I welcome those Muslims, we also welcome their conttributions. America has had it problems in prejudice but we have come a long way but we are still imperfect but still much better than 40 years ago. Muslims are treated no different than anyone else here and yes you get a few prejudice people but most Americans are very tolerant of them. Black also have their own share of prejudice but once again you play the victim card for them. Most Americans are tolerant and race is not as big of a issue but can we change more –yes. We still have a few intolerant people on, from all races, but they are a minority. The final part of Eagle's argument is wrong: the French ghettos full of poor North African immigrants are no worse than the London council estates. Social class and family connections, not religion or race, determine who can safely enter the ghetto. It was the same 100 years ago in parts of the East End: criminals were safe here as they could shelter in the houses of friends and relatives who had a longstanding mistrust of the authorities. These places are dangerous areas not because of "Muslims" but because there are a lot of angry young men living close together and forming gangs for their own protection I will try and find the time to demonstrate that it is about radical Islam and sharia law. Not all Muslims, of course, support that but I have read enough sources that point to the fact that it is religious in nature. How many are in France illegally? I have Muslim friends in Turkiye and their religion is not a factor to me because they are not in the least extreme. is this tolerance my friend? Saudi Arabia: Eritrean Christian facing death penalty for sharing his faith with Muslims Pakistan: Misunderstanders of Islam tell Christian "convert or die" Bangladesh: Dozens injured as Misunderstanders of Islam protest against women's rights Nigeria: Muslim mob storms three Christian villages, murders at least two people over alleged Qur'an desecration Here is a good video from a Muslim group in America- a group I respect http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpRgqDMrD4M The American Islamic Forum for Democracy http://www.aifdemocracy.org/ another great group of Muslims: http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/ The Europeans have persecuted Jews for far longer and on a much larger scale: expulsons in the Middle Ages, pogroms in Russia and the Holocaust in Germany. Are these the same Americans who feared communists from the 1950s-90s and whose grandparents were involved in the lynching of blacks? The same Americans who continue to distrust Russia while supporting military dictatorships and insurgents with dubious democratic credentials? Sadly, paranoia has become deeply entrenched in white American society, stemming from fear of the other. What is American culture? It is a melting pot in which one comes out of many. Why should it just be the Muslims, blacks and Mexicans who are forced to conform to a society created by white colonists? I haven't heard any demands for Irish-Americans to stop celebrating St Patrick's Day, drinking guinness, dancing to traditional music and worshipping the pope. Muslims have the same right to preserve their culture. Over time, they too will integrate and elements of their culture will enter the mainstream Even a few bigots is too many. Evangelical Christians like Pastor Jones claim Islam is devilish (despite Muslims worshipping the same God and following the teachings of the same prophets). After 9/11 there were demands to put Muslims in internment camps and damage to the property of Arab-Americans. The fact is Islamophobia is far more widespread than your statistics would have me believe: how many hate crimes go unreported? Look at all the reactionaries in the Tea Party attacking Obama on the assumption that because he is black his political agenda is radical, dangerous or "un-American." This is highly amusing as the ancestors of these Mad Hatters massacred the original Americans and stole their land (must be why modern conservatives are so pro-Zionist as the settlers in the West Bank are doing the exact same thing to the Palestinians) Why is sharia law seen as evil? Because punishments fit the crime? Similar solutions were carried out in our own society, including whippings, mutilation and execution. Islam is not to blame for the implementation of the law any more than Christianity is in early modern states. Earthly rulers were responsible for implementing these laws as they used scripture to consolidate their power. In some instances sharia-type punishments (like Christian church-courts) may be beneficial if applied to crimes not covered by our own laws (such as accusations of adultery or blasphemy within the religious community) and limited to fines of varying degrees of severity

I will be glad to come back to this when I have time and state why I don't agree or where I may I agree. I have an upcoming lecture about Alexander the Great so my time is occupied.

But you might enjoy this video
Dr. Zuhdi Jasser's testimony before the Committee on Homeland Security

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpRgqDMrD4M