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Athena
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Topic: Church Council at Nice and United Nations Posted: 24-Mar-2011 at 12:15 |
While reading about William the Bastard, I am came across an explanation of the Church Council at Nice and how it attempted to manage the peace between kingdoms. It occurred to me the
Church Council at Nice served as the United Nations serves today. I hope someone with more knowledge than I have has something to say about this comparison.
By the way, the history of William the Bastard makes the conflicts in Libya and other places much less dramatic, because such fights for power were so common in our own history. Which for me makes the story of the Church Council at Nice and comparison to the United Nation, even more interesting!
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 24-Mar-2011 at 17:14 |
Well it's true the early church up to and including the crusader period could and did exercise tremendous influence viz a vie their dominance as a moral and social building authority. Not to mention a threat of excommuication. But this power is essentially gone by the age of enlightenment and like the UN of today they were also often ignored as the factions of royalty vs. church would continually prove.
Henry II learned this as did many more....but by the time of the Protestant reformation this power is as noted; is dealt a death blow and would be ignored famously well into the age of Napoleon. It has never recovered. And it's greatest success, in that role, while extensive for several centuries fades rapidly...and today again as the UN is routinely and politely (more so the church) ignored.
Thanks
Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 24-Mar-2011 at 17:15
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Athena
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Posted: 26-Mar-2011 at 12:13 |
Thank you, Centrix Vigilis for the reply. My original concern is that we be aware of peace keeping efforts other than the UN, because we argue about the cost and benefit of the UN as though what it does was never done before, giving us a false of superiority to those who went before us. You take my thought a step further. What we have here is a question of authority, right? What gave the church the authority that others were willing to submit to and what gives the United Nation's authority?
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medenaywe
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Posted: 26-Mar-2011 at 12:24 |
Will resume:All structures of modern states and their international bodies were copy/paste from Holly Church structures!Crusaders were changed with UN.Middle East conflicts are crusade wars indeed!
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Athena
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Posted: 26-Mar-2011 at 12:49 |
I just noticed this thread comes up in Google search about the Church Council so I think we should provide more information about the Council for those who are not familiar with it.
I want to introduce the Wikipedia explanation of the Church Council, by saying, "well, how Roman of you."
The Greatness of Roman was bureaucratic and diplomatic. To a large degree this was learned from the Persians. Especially the example set by Cyrus's as he used the teachings of Zoroastrianism to bring many lands into the great kingdom of Persia. The Romans followed the Persian example of empire building, and perhaps with the Greek influence, used the rule of the Law of Nature, to settle disputes between citizens of different city/states, each having their own set of laws. This is not exactly a study of nature, but rather taking what is common in the laws of individual city/states and making a legal decision. Later, when Christianity becomes the official religion of Rome, the Roman Law of Nature is used to settle differences between the Christian communities, and finally, to determine which stories will go in the bible and which ones would not, what is Christian and what is not, who is Christian and who is not. So, what is called Canon Law, is not a mystical knowledge of the will of God as some would have us believe, but actually comes through the human effort to be civilized and develop empires.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_law
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Athena
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Posted: 26-Mar-2011 at 13:02 |
Originally posted by medenaywe
Will resume:All structures of modern states and their international bodies were copy/paste from Holly Church structures!Crusaders were changed with UN.Middle East conflicts are crusade wars indeed!
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Excellent insight medenaywe . Can you perhaps give us some parallels? Right now, the people of the US, sure as blazes do not want any more military engagements! We are very aware our military expenses are bankrupting us, even though the media focus on Social Security and medical issues, and avoids discussion of lowering taxes when we had not gotten out of debt because of previous military spending, and we continue growing our debt with more and more military actions, and continue insisting we must not tax the people to pay for these wars. This is insane! There are a handful of countries depending on the US for our military force. Is this expense being deducted from our UN dues? What is the crusade this time? In the past, were the kingdoms falling apart and the people rioting in the streets? I don't think the average US citizen wants to pay for more military action. How was the church able to organize the crusades and why did so many by into them? What is really happening?
Edited by Athena - 26-Mar-2011 at 13:07
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Athena
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Posted: 26-Mar-2011 at 13:10 |
This discussion took an unexpected turn. Now I am wondering, should this be included in this discussion? The overall outcome of the Crusades leaving the Empire permanently weakened. ... severely diminished the Byzantine Empire's military strength and allowed ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_Byzantine_Empire - Cached - Similar
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medenaywe
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Posted: 26-Mar-2011 at 13:10 |
"They traded in rare spices and silks."Crusaders!Than were spices and silks also looting,now strategic organic fuels reserves and monopoly under those.Here you are: http://www.medievalcrusades.com/foes.htm
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 26-Mar-2011 at 14:23 |
What gave the church the right was the enormous power they exercised over the religious beliefs system of the time that was, in the main ridgly adhered to and believed in and practiced under church control. That changes with the Reformation. and certainly by the age of enlightenment as I noted early. As for the UN of today; no one in their right mind believes they are effective, primarily because of their controlling basis structure, in most affairs hence their credibility suffers as a result. Why is another topic.
But it's an interesting question and I have enjoyed participating.
Thanks
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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