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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Topic: The Macedonian Lion, Symbol of Victory Posted: 30-Sep-2010 at 10:12 |
Interesting things have been mneioned here: http://www.ancientmacedonia.com/MacedonianLion.html and here about Philip II King of Macedonia: http://my.opera.com/macedoniansgenealogies/blog/show.dml/4307449 as you read the first one says "On August 2, 338 BC, the Macedonians defeated the Greeks at Chaeronea in central Greece and conquered their country. On the battlefiled they erected an impressive sculpture of a proud-standing lion." and the second one names it "Macedonian lion symbol of victory over the Greeks".
I think Stone Lion of Ecbatana: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamedan_Stone_Lion which is said to be erected by Alexander III of Macedonia, son of Philip II, could be in fact a "Macedonian lion symbol of victory over the Persian Empire", city of Ecbatana (Modern Hamedan), one of the main capitals of the Persian empire, was really the best place for the erection of this statue.
These two statues are really very similar to each other:
Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 30-Sep-2010 at 10:14
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opuslola
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Posted: 30-Sep-2010 at 14:28 |
Dear Cyrus! While I intended to remain absent from your site for a few more days, I just could not ignore your current post above.
Thus I hope to offer you a few sites, that you might have easily overlooked concerning the above!
http://www.outinquinte.net/GayQuinte/spirit_the_lion_chaeronea.htm
http://www.rmmeluch.com/alexander.htm
http://www.ranajitpal.com/asoka.html
Hope some of the above helps?
Regards,
Ron
http://ancient-macedonia.jimdo.com/the-lion-of-chaeronea/
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 30-Sep-2010 at 16:08 |
Thanks for links, that one about Ashoka is interesting, there are really good researches about Macedonian and Greek presence in India, anyway it is possible that Ashoka's Lion was also related to the Macedonian lion.
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opuslola
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Posted: 30-Sep-2010 at 16:17 |
Thanks, I thought it also of some interest, although I was not already familar with this personage! The entire "Lion" motif is of interest also! Various depictions, seem to seperate certain lineages and connect others!
But, since I doubt that real Lions actually populated any places in Europe during the last 2,000 years or so, I would have to consider that any European family that adopted such a sign, whould have, by necessity, have to have had some African or Levant connections? Persia is also a consideration!
But, in India, where the Tiger rules, I see no reason for any native of that area to ever set up any statue to the Lion / Lyon!
Considering the remains of 254 dead found in Greece, that were reportedly sent to Athens, do you have any idea what happened to those remains?
Regards,
Ron
Edited by opuslola - 30-Sep-2010 at 16:22
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 30-Sep-2010 at 17:07 |
This map shows "Lion Extirpation":
Therefore it seems there also were some lions in Greece and Macedonia in the time of Alexander, of course lion is a symbol of power in many cultures, but you see them in different forms, like those Macedonian seated lions, or Babylonian walking lions and Persian lying down lions.
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opuslola
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Posted: 30-Sep-2010 at 17:16 |
How about the European "rampant" Lions?
I also notice that there is no line into what we would call Persia or Iran today! Why is that?
Maybe I should have said, Afganistan, and surrounds?
This should have been ideal Lion territory? Especially for the so called Asiatic Lion!
Edited by opuslola - 30-Sep-2010 at 17:24
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opuslola
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Posted: 30-Sep-2010 at 18:00 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
This map shows "Lion Extirpation":
Therefore it seems there also were some lions in Greece and Macedonia in the time of Alexander, of course lion is a symbol of power in many cultures, but you see them in different forms, like those Macedonian seated lions, or Babylonian walking lions and Persian lying down lions. |
But, as you can see from your map above there seems to be a gap of about 800 or so years between the end of the Lion in Greece to the end of the Lion in the Caucasus! And then there appears to exist an even greater timeline before these same Lions are extinct in the other areas! Just why would there be such a time-line?
Edited by opuslola - 30-Sep-2010 at 18:03
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Brainstorm
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Posted: 04-Oct-2010 at 06:45 |
Hello people! (after years of absence:) )
On the matter... Actually the lionof Charonea was NOT erected by Macedonian as a monument of victory.
It was a funeral monument for the Dead Thebans. It was erected at the exact point were the Sacred Band fell at battle.
So any connections should be considered with scepticism.
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Brainstorm
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Posted: 04-Oct-2010 at 06:52 |
Excavation of the tomb brought
to light 254 skeletons, laid out in seven rows.
PAUSANIAS, DESCRIPTION OF GREECE 9.40.7
[ 7]
In the territory of
Chaeroneia are two trophies, which the Romans under Sulla set up to
commemorate their victory over the army of Mithridates under Taxilus.
But Philip, son of Amyntas, set up no trophy, neither here nor for any
other success, whether won over Greeks or non-Greeks, as the
Macedonians were not accustomed to raise trophies.
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opuslola
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Posted: 04-Oct-2010 at 16:32 |
I am glad that Brainstorm brought up this point! I wonder just how much any of you actually know about the reported origin and end of the Sacred Band of Thebes?
In actuality, they certainly present themselves more as "Spartans" than anything else! Young boys, raised amongst only men, and other boys, to be "brothers" in battle! As you well know, the so called "homosexual" depictions in Greek art, do denote a special feeling for this "brother-hood", as does well the possibility that these "brother-hoods" might well have denoted "religious" brother-hoods", whereby the "hood" might well have been appropriate?
Yes, I suggest a group of celibate warrior Monks!
Just think of the Knights Templar, or Hospitals, etc.? Thus the men on your shoulders, front and back, were fellow "cell mates!"
Just something to think about!
Regards,
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medenaywe
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Posted: 14-Feb-2014 at 16:20 |
I think it is one of those four lions,that protect Mother:
Edited by medenaywe - 14-Feb-2014 at 16:22
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akritas
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Posted: 19-Mar-2014 at 17:31 |
First, nobody knows who erected the Lion in Chaeronea, but is clear it was erected in order to honored the Thebans.
Pausanias(Boeotia 9.40.10 ) quote is clear:
"As you approach the city you see a common grave of the Thebans who were killed in the struggle against Philip. It has no inscription, but is surmounted by a lion, probably a reference to the spirit of the men."
As Brainstorm remarks, Macedonians were not accustomed to raise trophies.
Second the Philip forces were a compound of Macedonians, Thessalians, Epirotans, Aetolians, Northern Phocians and Epicnemidian Locrians. This battle implied the passing of the system of city-states and the substitution of large military monarchies.
Edited by akritas - 19-Mar-2014 at 17:37
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opuslola
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Posted: 19-Mar-2014 at 21:47 |
Thanks for the well written remarks akritas! But just what evidence remains that connects this monument to the time of Phillip of Macedonia?
You must well notice that the Wiki article uses these words; " In 1818, the so-called Lion of Chaeronea, a nearly 20-foot-tall (6.1 m) funerary monument erected in honor of the Sacred Band, was rediscovered by English travellers. The fragmentary monument was reassembled and installed in 1902 by an organisation called the Order of Chaeronea atop a pedestal at the site of its discovery.[4] The ancient biographer and essayist Plutarch was born in Chaeronea, and several times refers to these and other facts about his native place in his writings."
I really place little regard for any information concerning the times of any romantic English elites at this site in or around 1818 CE. I consider this mostly a fraud!
But, if any group of men should have been honored and the remains found I would suggest that this would be the remains of this group that is mentioned in the Wiki article;
"Battle between Catalans and Franks in March 15, 1311. The Catalan Company defeated the Franks and took control of great part of south Greece. Turks participated with the side of Catalans. The battle is described by Ramon Muntaner, a Catalan soldier."
And, as such, I would also regard any so called ancient mention of the above site and action was written by "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrarch", who also lived in the 14th century CE! His ancient version is but a "ghost" of the more recent personage.
See Plutarch!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutarch
Please also read this!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Halmyros
Most everything is revealed above!
Ron
Edited by opuslola - 19-Mar-2014 at 22:47
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akritas
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Posted: 21-Mar-2014 at 03:51 |
Opuslola, the connections are two:
-the ancient Greek writers, like Pausanias and
-the archaeological findings and primary the excavation of the tomb that brought to light 254 skeletons( as also spears,shields, ashes, vases e.t.c.), laid out in seven rows. The age of these findings dated of the 4th century BC.
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medenaywe
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Posted: 21-Mar-2014 at 07:49 |
Which are those 4 lions?!?
Edited by medenaywe - 21-Mar-2014 at 10:56
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akritas
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Posted: 21-Mar-2014 at 15:45 |
Lion capital of Ashoka.
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