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Kedah Kingdom, continuation of Sassanid Empire?

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Kedah Kingdom, continuation of Sassanid Empire?
    Posted: 12-Feb-2010 at 09:12
As you read here about Kedah Sultanate in the Malay Peninsula, the oldest Sultanate in the world, (the current Sultan is Sultan Abdul Halim):
 
In the year 630 CE, Maharaja Derbar Raja of Gemeron (now known as Bandar Abbas) in Persia was defeated in battle and escaped to Sri Lanka, and he was later blown off course by a storm to the remote shores of Kuala Sungai Qilah, Kedah. The inhabitants of Kedah found him to be a valiant and intelligent person, and they made him the king of Kedah. In the year 634 CE, a new kingdom was formed in Kedah consisting of Persian royalty and native Malay of Hindu faith, the capital was Langkasuka.
 
What was the battle? There were some battles between the last Persian king and Arabs in these years, like the Battle of ChainsBattle of Walaja, Battle of Ullais, the famous Battle of al-Qadisiyyah, or even the last battle, the Battle of Nahavand?
 
The interesting thing is that some Indians and Malays lived in the southern satrapies of the Sassanid Empire, like in Maishan.
 
"Maharaja Derbar Raja" sounds certainly an Indian name, but the second word "Derbar" has a Persian origin -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durbar_(court) (Door of the Tavern!)


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 12-Feb-2010 at 09:35
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2010 at 19:15
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

As you read here about Kedah Sultanate in the Malay Peninsula, the oldest Sultanate in the world, (the current Sultan is Sultan Abdul Halim):
 
In the year 630 CE, Maharaja Derbar Raja of Gemeron (now known as Bandar Abbas) in Persia was defeated in battle and escaped to Sri Lanka, and he was later blown off course by a storm to the remote shores of Kuala Sungai Qilah, Kedah. The inhabitants of Kedah found him to be a valiant and intelligent person, and they made him the king of Kedah. In the year 634 CE, a new kingdom was formed in Kedah consisting of Persian royalty and native Malay of Hindu faith, the capital was Langkasuka.
 
.......
 
Some things are wrong with the Wikipedia passage. The story of the  Maharaja Derbar of Gemeron ( 600’s AD ) is unsourced and seems unusual. It  can't be found  in scholarly literature either.
 
 
I checked the col. James Low translation (1849, reprint 1908) of The Kedah Annals (variant name the “Marong Mahawangsa “ ). No "Maharaja Derbar, raja of Gemeron "  (or similar) is mentioned in it.
 
The person Marong Mahawangsa of the Kedah Annals (whether a historical figure or not ) is clearly placed after 1000 AD. According the annals, he was an  ambassador of Rum and sent  by “ the King of Rum “ to arrange a marriage between his son (the prince of Rum )and a princess of China.  After many events (with mythical elements) , this Marong Mahawangsa stranded at the Malay peninsula and became king of Kedah. He returned to Rum later.
Low comments  that “Rum” initially refered to the east Roman empire but (in some Far East regions ) became a generic name for the Middle East . So Persia could be meant.
Some elements in The Kedah Annals story are linked by Low to well known events told by Marco Polo. Polo related that the King of  Persia (  Arghun Khan in the Mongol period end of the 13th century ) had sent ambassadors to Mongol-China to obtain a Chinese princess. They went via the Malacca straits on their way back.  She married  the new ruler Ghazan in Persia.
A part of the Kedah Annals (Low edition)is found here :
In any case,  Islamic Persian influences can be found in several things (e.g.  Shah title of the sultans)


Edited by Sander - 21-Feb-2010 at 19:43
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2010 at 04:08
I didn't know about it, a movie is being made about this man:
 
 
Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa (16th September 2010), Hikayat means story in Arabic.
 
It talks about Alexander, anyway it will be very interesting to watch this Malaysian movie.
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 03:41
"The Chronicles of Merong Mahawangsa". Yay!
 
I'm waiting for it to come out. 'Mahawangsa' is a Malay word, of Sanskrit origin (Mahavamsa), meaning 'Great Dynasty' or 'Great Race'.
 
'Maharaja', also of Sanskrit origin, means 'Great King'. It is used in modern Indian, Malay n other Sanskrit-derived languages as a translation for the English 'Emperor". Just like the Persian 'Shah-an-Shah'.
 
'Durbar Raja', again of Sanskrit origin, is now used in Malay to mean 'Council of Rulers'. The 9 Malay sultans now still reigning in Malaysia, as constitutional regional monarchs, meet officially every year, and their meeting is callled the Durbar Raja. Among them they rotate with one of them acting as the Supreme Ruler of Malaysia for 5 years.
 
As for "Merong', I can't say for sure what it means. Some guys say it means 'Dragon' in Thai or Khmer (Cambodian), with Malay also having ancient linguistic links with Khmer.
 
Or it could just be a Malay corruption of 'Gemeron', the ancient name for Bandar Abbas, the Persian city kingdom where Merong is claimed to have originated from.
 
As of now, there is yet no official concensus on the correct date of Merong Mahawangsa's legendary arrival in Qilah (Kedah), Malaysia. The date proposed by Wiki is 630 AD.
 
Some historians, amateur or professional, posit a time as recent as early 11th century, just after the devastating invasion of Kedah by the Tamil army of Rajendra Chola Deva of Chola Mandalam, South India in 1025.
 
While I was just going through a recently published book on the Kedah Sultanate yesterday, that was inferring a time between 30 BC and the 100s AD, which would make Merong's time contemporary with the Parthian period of ancient Iran, Emperor Hadrian of Rome and the Han dynasty of ancient China.
 
Thus, for the moment, Merong Mahawangsa is still a legend not yet rigorously proven. But a very important legend in the Malay, especially Kedahan Malay, psyche. A bit like Troy before Schliemann went to Turkey and dug up the proof for us all.
 
I think 'Rum', taken from the Arabic context, refers to Byzantium, i.e. the Eastern Roman Empire.
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 03:49
P.S.
 
Big secret! I hear the movie version is actually placing Merong Mahawangsa at 100 AD. Enjoy!
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 04:14
Originally posted by Sander

[/QUOT
Some elements in The Kedah Annals story are linked by Low to well known events told by Marco Polo. Polo related that the King of  Persia (  Arghun Khan in the Mongol period end of the 13th century ) had sent ambassadors to Mongol-China to obtain a Chinese princess. They went via the Malacca straits on their way back.  She married  the new ruler Ghazan in Persia.
[/QUOTE]
There is also some basis to suspect that the Merong Mahawangsa legend could have been inspired by the story of Pirooz, son of Yazdegerd III, who fled to China after his father was captured and killed by newly ascending Muslim Arabs in Merv, in today's Turkmenistan.
 
Piroooz arrived in China in 660 AD, when he was only a little boy. he had written to his sister, who was married to the Chinese emperor, for Chinese military support. With the Arab armies bearing down on him, he couldn't wait any longer. His surviving family and clan crossed the snowy Pamir mountains in the Himalayas and lost many imperial terasures on the way to China. Some of the items are still in muzeums in Beijing and Taiwan.
 
Cut a long story short: Pirooz grew up in the Chinese court and eventually became a general in the Chinese army, marrying into Chinese royalty. So did his son, Narseh, and Narseh's other siblings.
 
But still, I dearly, dearly hope, that Merong Mahawangsa eventually proves to be a true story. Just like Troy.
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2010 at 14:15

Marong Mahawangsa (MM) is not a 7th century AD figure, let alone 1th century AD according to the Kedah Annals. He is placed by them in a circa 13th century AD setting. Such is also clear from the list of successors which are named in these annals.

The MM in the 7th century AD story is some amateur story posted on the web.  Obviously, some have confused 7th century hijra  (is : islamic calendar )- which corresponds to the 13th century AD (that is :Gregorian calendar)- with 7th century AD and fabricated new internet versions.

Originally posted by Shield-of- Dardania

But still, I dearly, dearly hope, that Merong Mahawangsa eventually proves to be a true story. Just like Troy.
 
 
He could have had some historical basis as long one keeps him in the era where the Kedah Annals place him. The more he is forced to move to another era ; the less historical he gets!
 

BTW. He seems more of a founder of the current lineage , not so much the founder of the first Kedah polity.



Edited by Sander - 25-Mar-2010 at 14:47
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2010 at 18:53

I'm sure the current lineage would also not mind if someone eventually finds concrete evidence that Merong Mahawangsa did arrive in 100 AD. They would still likely find a way to link themselves to him. Or at least they should make an effort to find out.

The Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa (i.e. Kedah Annals) was actually the product of a court scribe ordered to come up with something to exalt the current Kedah lineage at a  time of overbearing Siamese Ayuthayan dominance. The Ayuthayans being relative newcomers to the kingdom scene in South East Asia, having set up their first formal kingdom in the ca 1360 on former Khmer (Cambodian) territory, soon conquering the slightly older Thai kingdom of Sukothai in the north.
 
HMM was thus not a strictly historical document, there were no firm dates. The story even involved King Solomon (to give glory to a new king?), an attacking Garuda - a giant mythical half-human, half-bird steed of the Hindu god Vishnu - which some guys say was an allegory to the massive naval invasion fleet of King Rajendra Chola.
 
The first recorded king of the current lineage, Maharaja Durbaraja I, according to official Kedah royal geneaology records, was actuallly a prince of the Sri Lankan royal court. That, to me, would make him likely a relative of King Vijayabahu, the Sinhala prince who liberated Sri Lanka from Tamil Chola occupation in 1073 AD.
 
While Maharaja Durbaraja II - 8 kings down the line from Maharaja Durbaraja I - also styled Phra Ong Mahawangsa by his Siamese overlords, converted to Islam and became Sultan Muzzafar Shah. Interestingly, the Thai title 'Phra Ong' - which also means 'Great King', i.e. "Maharaja', also sounds suspiciously close to the Malay-sounding title 'Merong'.
 
We can't say for sure if Merong Mahawangsa was the recorded Maharaja Durbaraja I, or an even earlier unrecorded Maharaja Durbaraja, because it was a popular royal title which could have been repeated numerous times.
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2010 at 19:35

Originally posted by Shield-of-Dardania

 

I'm sure the current lineage would also not mind if someone eventually finds concrete evidence that Merong Mahawangsa did arrive in 100 AD. They would still likely find a way to link themselves to him. Or at least they should make an effort to find out

It may be that somebody wants Kedah to be the first Islamic kingdom in the region. Anyhow, the 7th century AD version on the web is not supported by evidence . It's messed up.

The setting for MM I the founder is clearly a circa 13th century AD one.
 

Lets take that number of 8th down the line for the moment. (MM I is 1th in the line and MMII 8th ( 9th seems an error ). Genealogical counting uses 20-30 years as average . Thus, 7 x 20-30 = 140-210 years .

So, the first moslem sultan Muzaffar Shah ( =Raja Pra Ong Mahawangsa = MM II ) must have lived 140-210 years  after  MM I , the claimed ancestor of the Kedah lineage.
 

But, Thai influence on Kedah was already apparent before MM II's conversion.  Such  can be read in the annals.  ( see for example Col. Low, op cit. chapter X ).

Thus, MM II can be placed at least after 1350.  A date of 1400-1500 AD  would be consistent with the well known Thai expansion in the Malay peninsula .

Next , when MMII  became moslem he was congratulated by other sultans in the region like the sultan of  Aceh sultanate which was already Islamic. These areas became Islamic earlier than Kedah, around 1200-1300 AD .

More specific evidence : Other records (from rivals ) like the Acehnese Annals corroborate events.  The Sheikh Abdulla who converted Muzaffar  Shah event  is recorded as arriving there in 879 Hijra . This is  1474 AD ( by converter) which fits the 1450-1500 AD suggestion perfectly. (1)

All the above  and the explicit date show that  MM II lived around 1450-1500 AD.  MM I (whether mythical or not)is set by the Kedah Annals in the 13th century.

Notes  : 
 
(1) ” [ Missionary] Abdulla had arrived in Kedda according to the same annals in the year of Hejira 879 or AD 1501 “ ( more specific date 1474 AD ) Col. Low , op cit. p. 180
 
NB : 7 reigns are used instead of 8 but that does not influence a circa 13th century date.
 


Edited by Sander - 30-Mar-2010 at 11:30
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2010 at 04:07
From: http://www.royalark.net/Malaysia/kedah.htm
The Royal House of Kedah is of great antiquity, originating in the Hindu age, and said to have been founded by a Prince from Sri Lanka. Eight generations of the family ruled over the state before the conversion to Islam in 1136.
 
Sri Paduka Maharaja Durbaraja I, Raja of Langkasuka Kedah. Founder of the kingdom of Langkasuka. He had issue, a son:
1) Sri Paduka Maharajadiraja Putra, Raja of Kedah - see below.

Sri Paduka Maharajadiraja Putra, Raja of Kedah. He had issue, two sons:
1) Sri Paduka Maharaja Mahadeva, Raja of Kedah - see below.
2) Maha Sura.

Sri Paduka Maharaja Mahadeva, Raja of Kedah. He had issue, a son:
1) Sri Paduka Maharaja Karna di-Raja, Raja of Kedah - see below.

Sri Paduka Maharaja Karna di-Raja, Raja of Kedah. He had issue, a son:
1) Sri Paduka Maharaja Karma, Raja of Kedah - see below.

Sri Paduka Maharaja Karma, Raja of Kedah. He had issue, a son:
1) Sri Paduka Maharaja Deva II, Raja of Kedah - see below.

Sri Paduka Maharaja Deva II, Raja of Kedah. He had issue, a son:
1) Sri Paduka Maharaja Dharmaraja, Raja of Kedah - see below.

Sri Paduka Maharaja Dharmaraja I, Raja of Kedah. He had issue, two sons:
1) Sri Paduka Maharaja Mahajiva, Raja of Kedah - see below.
2) Maha Karma.

Sri Paduka Maharaja Mahajiva, Raja of Kedah. Styled Phaya Ong Maha Podisat by the Siamese. He had issue, a son:
1) Sri Paduka Maharaja Durbaraja II, who became as Sultan Mudzaffar Shah, Sultan of Kedah - see below.

1136 - 1179 Paduka Sri Sultan Muzaffar Shah I, Sultan of Kedah. Styled Phra Ong Mahawangsa by the Siamese. Styled Sri Paduka Maharaja Durbar Raja II before his accession. The first ruler of Kedah to embrace Islam. He d. 27th July 1179, having had issue, three sons:

1) Paduka Sri Sultan Mu'azzam Shah ibni al-Marhum Sultan Mudzaffar Shah, Sultan of Kedah - see below.
2) Tunku Muhammad Shah ibni al-Marhum Sultan Mudzaffar Shah, Raja Muda.
3) Tunku Sulaiman Shah ibni al-Marhum Sultan Mudzaffar Shah, Tunku Laksamana. Governor of Langkapuri.
 
Maharaja Durbaraja II a.k.a. Phra Ong Mahawangsa a.k.a. Sultan Muzzafar Shah was 8 generations down the line from Maharaja Durabaraja I. He converted on his ascension in 1136 AD. If you take 20 years per king and then work backwards through 8 kings, then our Sri Lankan friend, Maharaja Durbaraja I, would have arrived in Kedah in 976 AD.
 
Thing is, 20 years per king is a bit long for many ancient Malay kings. Many of them step down, die of sickness or in battle, or get usurped after several years.
 
I say, Maharaja Durbaraja I arrived in 1088 AD, when there was a shift in power in imperial overlord Srivijaya from Palembang to Jambi, enabling the Kedahans themselves to grab the opportunity to finally break free of foreign occupation.
 
They immediately set up a political marriage with then co-Buddhist ally Sri Lanka, who had themselves broken free from Tamil Cholan hegemony in 1073 AD. While also at the same time keeping peace with the new Srivijayan power centre in Jambi. Thus was the events that brought Maharaja Durbaraja I (a son or nephew of King Vijayabahu, perhaps?) from the Sri Lankan court to newly independent Kedah.
 
As for conversion to Islam, Patani may have competed with Aceh in terms of earliness. But the early stages of Islam in the SEA archipelago might not have meant a stable conversion. Some kings may have regressed, occassionally or permanently, back into their mixed Hindu-Buddhist-animist pre-Islamic beliefs.
 
 


Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 30-Mar-2010 at 04:08
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 15:34

The web version SOD ( Shield-of-Dardania )showed  ( Buyers’ Royal Ark) is from a Monarchy hobbyist.   Nothing authoritive or  official  about it . It may not be his fault but he shows a list with unattested and unevidenced  names (  nr.’s  2-7)

 

Nr. 1 : "Marong Mahawangsa " (MM) is attested in records ( Kedah Annals/Hikayat MM ) but the“Durbaraja “ part  is not.

 

Nr. 2 -7 :  The assigment of these names seems fiction.  Note that none of those names is referenced either.  Can SOD find any evidence of them and  cite a page in an old  Malay text that uses these names ? (in context of pre-MM II rulers of course).

 

Nr. 8 and 9. The names  "Pra Ong Maha Podisat " and " Pra Ong  Mahawangsa"(= MM II )  are attested ( Kedah Annals) ,  “Durbaraja”  is not.

 

Adding  unattested titles/ names  to rulers is speculative and a major part of confusion.

If  " Durbaraja "  appear in old texts  for the MM’s (and evidence of this is cited) it may be used.  If not, it’s distortive .  Lets  stick to attested names for the 2 MM’s like Marong Mahawangsa , Muzaffar Shah ( for MM II ) etc.  There is no dispute about these names.

 

Originally posted by  Shield-of-Dardania

I say, Maharaja Durbaraja I arrived in 1088 AD, when there was a shift in power in imperial overlord Srivijaya from Palembang to Jambi, enabling the Kedahans themselves to grab the opportunity to finally break free of foreign occupation.

...

 
 
SOD places MM I in c. 1088. Such seems too early but at least its after 1000 AD (so not the 7th century AD or even 1th century) .  It agrees in this respect  with what I said earlier :

 

Originally posted by Sander

...

“The person Marong Mahawangsa of the Kedah Annals (whether a historical figure or not ) is clearly placed after 1000 AD.”

 

 

 

More specifically ,  MM  I is placed by the Kedah Annals in a  circa 13th century  AD context and not a 1088 AD/11th century one.  Several old texts confirm that MM II  was converted around the 1470's ( see note 1 in my former post for the explicit date of 879 Hijra =1474 AD )  

 

The 1470's date is some 400 years from 1088 ( SOD 's date for MM I ) Yet, SOD  stressed  that MM II is the 9th since MM I ( following Buyer ).That means that  each ruler must have reigned some 50 years  ( 8  times  in a row ! ).  But , SOD also stressed  ( see below ) that – in his view- 20 years reign per ruler would be too long.   It would be strange if he supports 50 years  per ruler !
 
Originally posted by  Shield-of-Dardania

Thing is, 20 years per king is a bit long for many ancient Malay kings. Many of them step down, die of sickness or in battle, or get usurped after several years.
 
 
 Star
 
SOD, you like the subject but it appears you havent read /analyzed any old text.Therefore , your views conflict with the texts and also with each other on the crucial points.  Instead of believing some web versions it would be better to check  the old texts themselves.

 



Edited by Sander - 31-Mar-2010 at 16:21
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2010 at 02:32

You're right, Sandy. About one thing. Yes, I like the subject. It's one of my pet topics. One among many.

I have actually read several versions, or several interpretations, of MM. The national library, as well as the history society building, is just around the corner from where I work. Like I said, MM is an ancient legendary chronicle. It's wide open to the widest possible range of interpretations.
 
I mean, what else could you expect from a story which has someone from the post-Christian age going up to pay courtesy to King Solomon, consulting his advice and reporting again to him, a giant man-bird attacking and sinking an entire fleet of ships, a warrior firing arrows into the sky that shape-shift into magical fire-shooting raptors etc. etc. etc.
 
Not keen to burst your bubble, Sandy. But don't you think you're placing a wee too much faith in your old friend Mr. Low? While he seems to have had a bit too much of a liking for a time that bore some romantic tales told by an old friend of his, who was maybe an old friend of someone named Marco Polo.Smile
 
I did not say MM arrived in 1088. So 100 AD for MM is still possible in my book. Just like it's still possible in MM the movie.Wink
 
What I said was Maharaja Durbaraja I, founder of the current dynasty, might have arrived in1088. I did not equate MM with Maharaja Durbaraja I. I only said that it's not impossible that MM, whether he came in 100 AD, or 630 AD, could be an even earlier, unrecorded Maharaja Durbaraja, i.e. earlier than Maharaja Durbaraja I. Among numerous Maharaja Durbarajas.Approve


Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 01-Apr-2010 at 02:36
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2010 at 16:46
Opuslola's  post  here was a bit  distractive since  'Kedah' does not even occur in it.
 
But,  the post can be discussed somewhere else. It  ( nr. 1000 ) will be  transported soon.
 
 


Edited by Sander - 03-Apr-2010 at 00:47
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2010 at 22:34
 
Originally posted by Shield-of-Dardania

 
You're right, Sandy. About one thing. Yes, I like the subject. It's one of my pet topics. One among many.
 

Dont call me Sandy again.  Use Sander or initials (S. )

Originally posted by Shield-of-Dardania

SOD wrote :

I  have actually read several versions, or several interpretations, of MM. The national library, as well as the history society building, is just around the corner from where I work. Like I said, MM is an ancient legendary chronicle. It's wide open to the widest possible range of interpretations.

SOD claims he has read a lot but cant cite any evidence from an old text that uses  the nr. 2-7 names, as was asked.

 

Originally posted by Shield-of-Dardania

I mean, what else could you expect from a story which has someone from the post-Christian age going up to pay courtesy to King Solomon, consulting his advice and reporting again to him, a giant man-bird attacking and sinking an entire fleet of ships, a warrior firing arrows into the sky that shape-shift into magical fire-shooting raptors etc. etc. etc.

 

 

 

The MM I story has mythical elements as I mentioned. Such is irrelevant to the fact that MM I ( whether mythical or not )  is placed by the Kedah Annals in a circa 13th century AD context.  SOD does not seem to understand that even mythical figures are often placed in certain contexts. 

 

Originally posted by Shield-of-Dardania

Not keen to burst your bubble, Sandy. But don't you think you're placing a wee too much faith in your old friend Mr. Low? While he seems to have had a bit too much of a liking for a time that bore some romantic tales told by an old friend of his, who was maybe an old friend of someone named Marco Polo.  

 

Note that SOD complains about  James Low, while  Low references old texts, unlike SOD.  No evidence is cited by SOD for Nrs.  2-7 .

 
 
 
 

 Star

 

 



Edited by Sander - 03-Apr-2010 at 00:12
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2010 at 22:36
I read in this Persian website that two Malaysian Researchers named Prof. Urfi and Dr.Omar Amin Hussein strongly believe in the presence of some Iranian tribes in Malaysia from the ancient times, I found something from the second one here: http://www.mykedah2.com/e_10heritage/e102_1_p2.htm

"Kalah" or "Kalaha" was Found by Kurds from the Kalahar Tribe

The State of Kedah, which was opened in 11th century A.D. was originally named "Kalah" (Muhammad Hassan, 1968: 3). "Kalaha" was the name of a tribe of Kurds, i.e. the natives of Iran who migrated to the Nusantara in the 10th and 11th century A.D. When the "Kalahar" tribe settled in Kedah, the other tribes moved on to settle down in other parts of the Malay Archipelago (Omar Amin Husin, 1962: 185).

Historians had proven that the Kingdoms of Pasai, Rokan, Kuntu and Siak in Sumatra were opened by Muslim Iranians as far back as 969 A.D. Tombstones engraved in the Pahlawi script were found there. Legor, or Nakhorn Si Thammarat was opened by Kunu Iranians who named the city, Jamguerd. Arabs pronounced it as "Jamkut". The same could be said of a settlement in Leren, near Gerisik in East Java, which was believed to have been opened by Iranians of the Lor tribe. Zainab binti Maimun who was buried in Leren in 1101 A.D. had Sulaiman al-Farisi as one of her ancestors (Omar Amin Husin, 1962: 179)

When the Kalahar tribe arrived in Kedah, they named the place in accordance with the name of their tribe: Kalahar. Muhammad Hassan in his book, "Al-Tarikh Salasilah..", wrote its name as "Kalaha". Arabs pronounced it as "Kalah". These Kurds tribes who had migrated to the Nusantara did so not only for trade, but also in search of a calm and peaceful life, away from their own strife-torn land. These Iranians had also migrated to Africa, India, The Middle East, the Far East and New Zealand. The Malay Archipelago or "Nusantara" was also one of their destinations.

and here: http://www.mykedah2.com/e_10heritage/e102_1_p3.htm

About 1000 years ago the Shiites of Iran began a campaign of prosecution against the Sunnis forcing them to flee Iran. The Sunnis were indeed in a direful state. They needed to migrate in large numbers to a place, which would offer them safety from the Shiites (Omar Amin Husin, 1970:27).

Some of these Sunni Muslims from Iran, arrived in the Malay Archipelago (Nusantara) at the same time Merong Maha Wangsa or Maha Raja Durbar Raja, arrived in Kedah. Kedah was still burning from the attack by Chola.

"Hikayat Merong Maha Wangsa" indicated that the first King of Kedah as Merong Maha Wangsa himself. He was Rome's ambassador, entrusted with the mission of taking the emperor's son to wed the daughter of the Chinese emperor.

During the journey,his fleet was attacked by the mythical giant bird, "Geruda", in the seas near the Island of Langkapuri. Merong Maha Wangsa's fleet, which was said to have "filled the sea", was totally destroyed. Only his ship survived. He was forced to land at the foot of Jerai Mountain, where he was installed as King by the local population.

"Rome" here referred to territory within the Persian Empire or Iran, which used to be a part of the Eastern Roman Empire. This area had already accepted Islam, ever since the time of Al-Rashidin Caliphs. To Arabs, this former territory of the Roman Empire in the north of Iran, was "Rome". It was here that both Iranians and Turks set up strong Muslim governments, one after another (M.A. Rauf, 1967: 71).

The "Garuda" bird was the official transportation of the god Vishnu and was one of many Hindu symbols. It was deemed unavoidable that Merong Maha Wangsa's fleet be attacked by Hindu naval forces. In the 11th and 12th century A.D. attacks on Muslim shipping by Hindu fleets in the Indian Ocean had become a natural phenomenon.

Merong Maha Wangsa was said to have married a woman from a seafaring tribe called the "Gergasi" and urged his subjects to emulate him. This is not a Hindu practice.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2010 at 22:57
I should mention here that there is always a mistake that the region in the northwest of Iran and eastern Turkey where mostly Kurdish people live and has been called as "Rum" (like "Erzurum" = Land of Rum) by Persians from the ancient times, relates to the Rome in modern Italy or ancient Romans, whenas this Persian name comes from the Assyrian name of the lake Urumia which means "City of Water" (Ur+Mia) in the Assyrian language, the largest city in the west of the lake Urumia in Iran has the same name of Urumia too.
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2010 at 23:17
 Now,  Cyrus supplied some sources with evidence for certain things...

Edited by Sander - 02-Apr-2010 at 23:20
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2010 at 04:03
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Some of these Sunni Muslims from Iran, arrived in the Malay Archipelago (Nusantara) at the same time Merong Maha Wangsa or Maha Raja Durbar Raja, arrived in Kedah. Kedah was still burning from the attack by Chola.
There were actually 3 major invasions on kingdoms of the Palembang Srivijaya confederation, or empire, including Kedah, by the Tamil kingdom of Chola Mandalam in the 11th century AD: in 1017, 1025 and 1068. Palembang Srivijaya was then a mostly Buddhist realm.
 
The first one (1017), led by King Rajendra Chola was possibly, at least partly, a response to an invasion and destruction of Hindu kingdom Mataram, a close ally of the Chola, on Java island, by Palembang Srivijaya. Several kingdoms got hit. The centre of Palembang Srivijaya then was in Palembang, on the island of Sumatra. The maharaja of Palembang Srivijaya was then named Mara Vijaya, who had led the expedition against Mataram the previous year.
 
The second one (1025), led by Rajendra Chola too, was possibly in response to the recalcitrance of Sang Rama Vijaya, the son and successor of Mara Vijaya, and his growing resistance to Tamil Cholan hegemony. By this time, the new maharaja might have shifted his throne to Kedah, either intermittently or permanently, in view of its increased importance as a trade and commercial centre over Palembang city. Tamil records about the 1025 battle in fact referred to Sang Rama Vijaya as ruler of Kadaram (Kedah), which in fact extended its hegemony over a major portion of the Malay Peninsula. Sang Rama Vijaya was removed and replaced with a brother or relative, Sri Deva, who submitted to Cholan overlordship. During this invasion, Rajendra Chola carted off, among others, the famed Vidhyadara Torana, a temple door of solid gold inlaid with expensive jewels, from Kedah.
 
Those two invasions also occurred during a time of fierce rivalry between newly Islamic northern India and Hindu southern India, so they could also be interpreted as a reaction by Chola Mandalam, the then remaining Hindu bastion in India, to growing Islamic dominance in the north, where Turko-Persian sultan Mahmud al-Ghaznavi ruled supreme and sacked neighbouring Hindu kingdoms with near virtual impunity almost every year. The loot obtained by Rajendra Chola was believed to have been used, partly or wholly, to finance his burgeoning army, perhaps as preparations for a final showdown against Mahmud. A showdown predicted by some, but which never materialised.
 
The 3rd invasion (1068), led by Vira Rajendra Chola, the new Cholan king, was possibly in response to a Kedahan rebellion against their Palembangian overlords. The Palembangians had already been defeated, but the Tamils came assisting them and defeated the rebel forces, then handed the kingdom back to their Palembangian vassal-allies to rule on Cholan behalf.
 
In 1088, the neighbouring kingdom of Jambi invaded and defeated Palembang, the old centre and lead kingdom of the Srivijayan empire. It is believed that several kingdoms in the Malay Peninsula, one of them being Kedah, grabbed this golden opportunity to liberate themselves from foreign hegemony, Jambi having been much less keen than former overlord Palembang to rule over and maintain a far-flung islandic empire. It was also an opportune time for the Kedahans, because Chola Mandalam was by then also under increasing pressure from neighbouring kingdoms closer to home in southern India, their vassal Sri Lanka having broken free from Tamil Cholan occupation under King Vijaya Bahu in 1073.
 
Thus Kedah broke free, in 1088, and quickly arranged a strategic epigamia (political marital alliance) with Sri Lanka, a long time co-Buddhist ally. Thus came a prince from Sri Lanka, a son or nephew of Vijayabahu, became the first king of the new Kedahan dynasty, ascending the throne under the name of Maharaja Durba Raja I.
 
Incidentally, the dynasty of Vijaya Bahu was named 'Mahavamsa' (Great Dynasty), which would have been rendered in Malay as 'Mahawangsa'. It is stated in their chronicles to have gone back to their original founder, one Prince Vijaya, to the 500s BC, i.e. about the time of the death of Prince Siddharta Gautama, founder of Buddhism.
 
Current official royal geneaology records of Kedah does not officially mention a 'Raja Merong Mahawangsa' as such. That's why I believe RMM was an earlier king, much earlier. A Persian or otherwise Iranian prince was always a distinct possibility, considering the long history of trade and cultural links between Persia and the Malay Peninsula, which would have harked back to the early centuries AD, i.e. the Pahlavi (Parthian) era.
 
However, a later king, 8 kings down the line from Maharaja Durba Raja I, who the Siamese called 'Phra Ong Mahawangsa' (Great King of Great Dynasty), ascended as Maharaja Durba Raja II, then soon converted to Islam with the name Sultan Muzzafar Shah in 1136.
 
One thing has been tugging at my curiosity. Could 'Gemeron', the ancient name for Bandar Abbas, possibly be linked in any way, to Gimiri, Gumri or Gumrun, a possible Iranian term for Cymmerian?


Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 06-Apr-2010 at 04:53
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  Quote tips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2011 at 06:00
maybe interested to read this book.. UNDANG-UNDANG KEDAH . http://openlibrary.org/books/OL3448168M/Undang-Undang_Kedah

hope you find something that related with others history's esp. patani,aceh.. .. its maybe totally different with reference's that wrote by british admistration.. like Richard Winstedt, Frank Swettenham even Munsyi Abdullah not really Malay Origin.. ;)

Inferior Complex is the most critical disease for generation that been blinded with fairy imagination.. ;)   
WITHOUT PREJUDICE
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