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Notes on Diffusionism, diffusion and Inventionism
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cavalry4ever View Drop Down
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Posts: 589 		  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Notes on Diffusionism, diffusion and Inventionism
    Posted: 05-Oct-2009 at 07:02
There are two facets of diffusionism.The mainstream diffusionism which is nicely summarized at the link below:
http://www.as.ua.edu/ant/Faculty/murphy/diffusion.htm

The problem with diffusionism is the fact that it was based on Eurocentric vision of the world. It is just the question of digging a bit deeper before racism starts appearing.

These are interesting links to articles about diffusionism.

http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/origins/blaut.htm
James Blaut was a well known debunker of diffusionism, particularly in its Eurocentric form. 

This is really the dark side of diffusionism:
http://www.flavinscorner.com/collin.htm

For anyone from continents conquered by Europeans, diffusionism, in its raw Eurocentric form, is probably perceived as racist and that would be justifiable. Yet, as a part of mainstream anthropology it is one of many theories that apply to evolution of societies. 


Edited by cavalry4ever - 05-Oct-2009 at 16:46
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Posts: 597 		  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2009 at 04:03

This continues a discussion  that had  started in another  thread.   My own comments follow soon.

 
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Edited by Sander - 06-Oct-2009 at 04:05
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Posts: 597 		  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2009 at 18:59
 
Originally posted by cavalry4ever

There are two facets of diffusionism.The mainstream diffusionism which is nicely summarized at the link below:
http://www.as.ua.edu/ant/Faculty/murphy/diffusion.htm
 

The problem with diffusionism is the fact that it was based on Eurocentric vision of the world. It is just the question of digging a bit deeper before racism starts appearing.

 
"Diffusionism " in proper sense refers specifically to the complex of theories, principles  etc. as outlined in the 1900s.  The term should not be used broadly for contacts, whether with or without some diffusion.
 
The Eurocentric vision claim is not well supported , since even early  Diffusionism stressed that civilization started  in the  non-European Near East /Egypt  ( e.g. Lord Raglan, Elliot Smith ) and went to Europe and elsewhere. Asian influences were stressed too.
 
Anyway, more important is that the later diffusion-minded scholars rather stressed multi-directional diffusion  between the civilizations combined with much local development as well. This goes beyond the 2 old schools  ( Diffusionism and Inventionism/isolationsm ). Such is what many objective specialists do today. Clap 
 
Only dogmatists still claim that virtually everything in a civilization was due to diffusion from overseas or  the opposite ;  that everything was just local invention.  That civilizations influenced each other is not racist.  Such is normal and shown many times.  The idea of un-influenced civilizations  that developed in isolation from the others is never demonstrated or supported with evidence.
 
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Edited by Sander - 08-Oct-2009 at 11:08
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2009 at 20:32
Dear C4E,and Sander;

It is not diffusionism or diffusion that is the problem, it is really "confusionism" that is the problem! As well as "repetitivism"!, and "copyism!"
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Posts: 589 		  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2009 at 06:54
Thanks Sander. I am not really in disagreement with you. I did point out in my posts that there is confusion about meaning of that world. If you had a survey, most of people casually familiar with diffusion and diffusionism would consider them negative. I was defending there Pachachutec's comments. I would not mind if you posted more about modern version. Eurocentric and supremacist association does come from fringe elements twisting the original concept. 

Speaking about mainstream diffusion. From the "common sense" perspective it seems to me it is a weak concept. If you look at evolution of societies right now, you can have side by side two societies. One modern and one still stuck in the medieval times. Geographical and information separation is negligible, but there may be developmental gap of several centuries. If diffusion worked, Africa should be on the same level as Europe. How all these theories deal with this?
How about the fact that Arab societies regressed so much, while Europe advanced. Yet both existed side by side and started on exactly opposite ends of the development spectrum.?


Edited by cavalry4ever - 08-Oct-2009 at 06:55
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Posts: 597 		  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2009 at 09:35
 
 
Originally posted by cavalry4ever

If you look at evolution of societies right now, you can have side by side two societies. One modern and one still stuck in the medieval times. Geographical and information separation is negligible, but there may be developmental gap of several centuries.
 
If diffusion worked, Africa should be on the same level as Europe. How all these theories deal with this?
 
Such is what you claim (without support ), so if Africa aint as you claim, you refute your  own claims.
 
 
Originally posted by cavalry4ever

Speaking about mainstream diffusion. From the "common sense" perspective it seems to me it is a weak concept.
 
That s un-informed opinion.  The 2 old schools are both outdated as wholes but the  main diffusion principles are historically attested and scientifically demonstrable.  The old Isolationist principles are claims. No historic attestion ,  no demonstration.
 


Edited by Sander - 13-Oct-2009 at 10:15
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Posts: 589 		  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2009 at 10:18
According to you Somalia is on the same level of development as more modern societies?
How about Iraq and Afghanistan?
Wealthier ones, such as oil states.
Unless you thing that feudal, clan based societies are going to be the wave of the future.
At least in terms of political development, diffusion does not seem to be working.


Edited by cavalry4ever - 13-Oct-2009 at 10:20
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2009 at 10:49
Speaking of diffusionsim, a number of years ago my father in law was based in Saudi Arabia, where he noticed many bedouin placing their camels in the back of their trucks!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Posts: 597 		  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2009 at 11:00
Originally posted by opuslola

Speaking of diffusionsim, a number of years ago my father in law was based in Saudi Arabia, where he noticed many bedouin placing their camels in the back of their trucks!
 
Trucks  that diffused  to the desert are indeed a case  of diffusion ! Clap


Edited by Sander - 13-Oct-2009 at 11:04
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2009 at 11:05
No, the replacement of a traditional form of travel with a newer model!
But, the tendency to remain in the past is still strong! After all they are still bedouin at heart! And hate to give up their "ship of the desert!"
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Posts: 597 		  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2009 at 11:50
Originally posted by opuslola

No, the replacement of a traditional form of travel with a newer model!
But, the tendency to remain in the past is still strong! After all they are still bedouin at heart! And hate to give up their "ship of the desert!"
 
A case of diffusion plus some  innovation! Tongue
Anyway, rifles were diffused to certain bedouins  in the past as well. 
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Posts: 589 		  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2009 at 11:57
You are confusing diffusion with trade. The difference is as follows:
After oil revenues end and all mechanics go to their home countries, if it was diffusion, they will be able to continue with locally manufactured trucks.
It it was just trade - they will have to move back to camels.
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