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cavalry4ever
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Topic: Physical Isolation and Cultural Development Posted: 09-Sep-2009 at 09:02 |
Isolation is an interesting mechanism. Another place that it occurred was New Guinea. That island had a biggest density of distinct languages in the world. Each valley developed its own, because of topography. None of these speakers could even communicate with each other.
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Sander
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Posted: 09-Sep-2009 at 11:24 |
Originally posted by cavalry4ever
Isolation is an interesting mechanism. Another place that it occurred was New Guinea. That island had a biggest density of distinct languages in the world. Each valley developed its own, because of topography. None of these speakers could even communicate with each other. |
Some forest tribes were isolated from each other, but New Guinea as a whole was not. Several complex traits diffused to it ( and some from it ) in the last millenia ; red slipped pottery for example. They are traced back to Asia by using normal methodology ( like time sequence and overlap).
Edited by Sander - 09-Sep-2009 at 12:54
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cavalry4ever
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Posted: 09-Sep-2009 at 13:02 |
Papuan languages are the third biggest language family in the world (for number of languages, not speakers). They originated from a common protolanguage in New Guinea and spread to nearby islands and have nothing to do with present Asian languages. As linguists would tell, if we go far enough, all languages can be traced to a common protolanguage. Link you gave me talks about Papuan pottery, done with local clay. It talks about Australian Aborigines and Papuans mixing. These were two different language groups influencing each other.
Edited by cavalry4ever - 09-Sep-2009 at 13:10
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Cryptic
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Posted: 09-Sep-2009 at 13:53 |
Originally posted by cavalry4ever
It talks about Australian Aborigines and Papuans mixing. These were two different language groups influencing each other. |
A small number of Aboriginal groups had limited contact with Paupuan trading canoes. These trading expeditions from New Guinea to Australia continued into mdoern times until they were stopped by the Australian government during WWI.
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Posted: 09-Sep-2009 at 15:01 |
Originally posted by cavalry4ever
Isolation is an interesting mechanism. Another place that it occurred was New Guinea. That island had a biggest density of distinct languages in the world. Each valley developed its own, because of topography. None of these speakers could even communicate with each other. |
New Guinea highlands are one of the few places in the world where agriculture started independently. In the island, the agriculture of taro is dated to circa 10.000 BP (before present)
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Sander
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Posted: 09-Sep-2009 at 16:25 |
Originally posted by cavalry4ever
Papuan languages are the third biggest language family in the world (for number of languages, not speakers). They originated from a common protolanguage in New Guinea and spread to nearby islands and have nothing to do with present Asian languages.
As linguists would tell, if we go far enough, all languages can be traced to a common protolanguage. Link you gave me talks about Papuan pottery, done with local clay. It talks about Australian Aborigines and Papuans mixing. These were two different language groups influencing each other.
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I don’t dispute your claim that isolation of many groups led to great linguistic diversity. It one of the largest language family’s.
But in the context of isolation, I mentioned that New Guinea as a whole was not isolated. Some coastal groups were exchanging with Australia, the Malay archipelago and indirectly with the Asian mainland.
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Posted: 09-Sep-2009 at 20:29 |
By the way, I posted some interesting data about Australian Aborigines' technology:
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Cryptic
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Posted: 10-Sep-2009 at 09:11 |
As far as isolation goes, I think the most isolated people on earth were the Tasmanian Aborigines. Other very isolated people included the Addaman and Nicobar Islanders. I dont know if these people also regressed to the point where they forgot Bows and fish hooks. The Islanders did, however, lose the ability to construct ocean going canoes.
Edited by Cryptic - 10-Sep-2009 at 09:41
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cavalry4ever
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Posted: 10-Sep-2009 at 11:30 |
I just relocated relevant posts. Let's continue.
Originally posted by Cryptic
As far as isolation goes, I think the most isolated people on earth were the Tasmanian Aborigines. Other very isolated people included the Addaman and Nicobar Islanders. I dont know if these people also regressed to the point where they forgot Bows and fish hooks. The Islanders did, however, lose the ability to construct ocean going canoes. |
I still think interior of New Guinea should be added to most isolated areas. It is almost as seeking isolation is part of human nature. Just think about various Kurd dialects that developed in the valleys in Northern Iraq. These dialects almost evolved into separate languages, yet physical separation was not that great.
Edited by cavalry4ever - 10-Sep-2009 at 11:36
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Posted: 10-Sep-2009 at 12:07 |
It is hard to think in any place that was completelly sealed from the outside world. As it has been expossed, Australians were visited once in a while by Guineans. Even in the Americas, Alaska was not isolated from Siberia. There was a very small traffic back and forth between both regions, by artic peoples, at least since 2.000 years ago.
With respect to isolation as a mechanism that generates diversity; that's absolutelly correct. It applies to human cultures, but also to species of plants and animals.
On the other hand, isolation reduces to zero the incoming of foreign influences, making the development slower. That can be seen in the Americas, for instance, where no matter the numerous civilizations that grew there, technology and science were left behind with respect to the faster developments of the Old World.
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Cryptic
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Posted: 10-Sep-2009 at 14:47 |
Originally posted by cavalry4ever
I still think interior of New Guinea should be added to most isolated areas. It is almost as seeking isolation is part of human nature. |
I agree with your point about New Guinea. But I disagree with your point about seeking isolation.
I dont think that Australian / Tasmanian Aborigenis, Highland New Guineans, Addaman, Nicobar, Easter Islanders wanted to be that isolated. Rather, they got stranded and then got isolated.
These peoples were probably part of a continous wave of humanity pushing into new areas. When they first arrived, they had steady contact with other peoples and probably expected follow on waves of immigrants to either join them or to trade with them.
For a variety of reasons, however, the follow on waves, however, did not come. Once the stranded peoples slowly forgot transportation technologies (Australia, Addaman and Nicobars) or no longer had trees from which to construct ocean canoes (Easter and other Pacific islands), the unwilling isolation set in.
Originally posted by Pachacutec
It is hard to think in any place that was completelly sealed from the outside world. As it has been expossed, Australians were visited once in a while by Guineans. |
Completely 100% sealed off, no. But interior Australians, Tasmanians, and Addaman / Nicobar islanders were very isolated for a very long time.
Edited by Cryptic - 10-Sep-2009 at 14:50
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