Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Hakkapellites?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Count Belisarius View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Magister Militum

Joined: 25-Jul-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1109
  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hakkapellites?
    Posted: 25-Jan-2009 at 21:09
Can anyone tell me what they were? Is the name spelled right? Can anyone tell me anything about their battle tactics? Their equipment?
 
P.S please don't move this to Q&A since no one ever posts there and because I will never get an answer
 
BTW is it just me or do the mods threaten to ban anyone who posts in my threads?


Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)


Back to Top
Aster Thrax Eupator View Drop Down
Suspended
Suspended

Suspended

Joined: 18-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1929
  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2009 at 23:07

They were basically a kind of light Finnish cavalryman used under Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden, first used in the Polish-Swedish wars of the 1500s and the later 30 years war in the Holy Roman Empire. They were utilised as scouts and light cavalry, and were armed with just a slashing sword and some light plate armour. Aside from that, I'm not sure.

Back to Top
Styrbiorn View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2810
  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2009 at 17:36
Search for info on Swedish 17th century cavalry. "Hakkapellitta", from hakka päälle, "hit on" or similar, is just an old Swedish/German nickname for the Finnish cavalrymen. Their equipment (pistols fired at closed range, and swords) and tactics were no different then from the rest of the national cavalry.
Back to Top
Falchion View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 26-Jun-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3
  Quote Falchion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2009 at 18:20
The main "innovation" was to re-introduce the charge to western cavalry tactics that had started to rely on firearms.

Most pistoliers (pistol armed cavalry) of the time used the caracole-tactic where they would move forward, fire their pistols and then fall back to reload.
This was an inefficient because the cavalry avoided getting close enough to cause any serious damage with their pistols because they didn't want to get shot themselves.
They would only initiate close combat if the enemy broke and ran.

The Swedish-Finnish cavalry nicknamed "Hakkapeliitta" instead charged the enemy formation, firing both their pistols only in point blank range and then drew their swords to fight in close combat. This was considered more ferocious and effective than the caracole-tactic. The battle shout "Hakkaa päälle" that evolved into the name "Hakkapeliitta" comes from this charge.

They carried 2 pistols (but could often only carry 1 due to lack of funds) and a saber. Metal armor was rarely worn because Sweden couldn't afford to equipt it's soldiers with it and armor wasn't considered a priority in Swedish cavalry tactics.
Also the horses used by the Hakkapeliitta were pony sized Finnish working horses that weren't as impressive as European warhorses but their upkeep was easier and cheaper.


Edited by Falchion - 02-Feb-2009 at 18:33
Back to Top
rapala View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl


Joined: 07-Oct-2005
Location: Finland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 43
  Quote rapala Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2009 at 13:45
Hackapeliittas were the finnish regiments of light cavalry in the swedish empire betwen 1630-1700s.
They were i might say one of the most usseles cavalry regiments in the world. While sweden experienced its most glorious achievments in their history and largest empire in the time of their history they had to increase the amount of of soldiers to fit in to their great empire.
One thing they came up with was to put a use to the people from the eastern borders of what was called österlanded (now finland) to their army att the time of Gustav Adolf. But the problem was that the people from the eastern border were few in numbers and had much worser living standards compared to the rest of the swedes in that time. it was planed that They would be trained to become a highly diciplined army but failed to obey some simple comands taught by some of the best officers in sweden. Instead they solved the problem by ussing them in something that is much cheaper and more cost effective in a army, first they put a use to the horses in the nearby lands called finnhorses, wich wasn't as impresive like the warhorses (mentioned above) ussed in the rest of european armies. They were also equiped with cheap weaponry, for example a cheap sabre wich had lesser amount of steel in it than a ordinary sabre.

Armors were comon to but not as much common like the other cavalry regiments outside of finland. they were commonly ussed for scouting, and in some occasions canon fodder. To bad these kind of cavalry regiments are way overated in finland, just to have some national pride for their young nation. Big smile

Of course by that i mean not all people are meant to be equal, like finns who never got their oportunity to create a own nation, like some famous historians say let the wise and powerfull be rewarded with glory and respect, and the weak be punished with oppresion and shame. Hackapellitas where an example of the second thing and so was/is the rest of the eastern border of scandinavia. To be immune from opresion is to be strong, and for the finns its the oposite.


Edited by rapala - 13-Jan-2010 at 16:36
Back to Top
rapala View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl


Joined: 07-Oct-2005
Location: Finland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 43
  Quote rapala Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2010 at 12:32
Hum.. Im quite supriced that im not banned att this moment, but i guess this is a history forum so just telling the truth wont be such a big broblem after all. Well reason for me to bump (yes sorry) is that i would like to know more about these types of soldiers, how they manage to fight even with the worst weaponry and horses. Any pictures would be interesting.Wink 
Back to Top
nomooon View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 03-Nov-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 20
  Quote nomooon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2010 at 08:23
thanks for the detailed information on these horsemen! Not that I was terribly interested in these horsemen before ( even though I am a fan of Gustav's achievements), but the way you explained to us is very interesting!
Back to Top
rapala View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl


Joined: 07-Oct-2005
Location: Finland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 43
  Quote rapala Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2010 at 17:00
Originally posted by nomooon

thanks for the detailed information on these horsemen! Not that I was terribly interested in these horsemen before ( even though I am a fan of Gustav's achievements), but the way you explained to us is very interesting!


Remember, they weren't that impresive as they sound like, ever played empire total war, those units are the far worst of the worst of all cavalry units, even untrained dragoons could beat them up in melee combat.
Back to Top
Van_Möck View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl


Joined: 20-May-2010
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 39
  Quote Van_Möck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2010 at 06:52
Although today they are glorified to some degree they were propably a more reliable force than most of the mercenaries of the thirty years war.

For example they couldnt switch sides as easily as many of the mercenaries did (sometimes multiple times). Whereas the mercenaries would fight for their own profit, the national swedish (and finnish) forces as a whole had a religious protestant background that was a large part of their everyday lives and bound them to the person of the king, so loyalty was very important to them.

For the finnish in particular there also was a language barrier, as they mostly only spoke finnish, and had even the swedish commands and curch services translated into finnish for them, so they were to some degree a seperate group inside the swedish forces.
Leading their own negotiations with the german troops was difficult for them, and they were propably pretty much dependent on their swedish comrades to interact with the german forces.
Because of this they also depended on each other and where thus more cohesive than many of their enemies.

Although there arent many sources of their actual fighting qualities I remember reading in an old history book about the history of prussia from 1860 or so ( "Preußische Geschichte" of Leopold von Ranke), that in a siege, where the forces of the Elector of Brandenburg, Frederick William I. (who was more or less the founding father of the later state of prussia) took a northern german city back from the swedes, the national swedes managed to retreat, leaving back the finnish regiment which was trapped in the city and didnt manage to get away in time.

I cant find the book right now, but according to the author the finnish were
"Tapfer kämpfend bis zum letzten Mann niedergemacht"
so roughly translated :
"fighting bravely until cut down to the last man"

It might be that simply none of them spoke german, so they couldnt negotiate about surrender, but I cant say this for sure. I also read somewhere that they didnt shout at their enemies while fighting, which was very uncommon, so they had a very grim appearance on the battlefield.
But despite some claims they where not really widely feared or even really recognised as a single entity by the catholics.
However according to wikipedia there is one prayer preserved saying:

"A horribile Haccapaelitorum agmine libera nos, Domine."
"O Lord, deliver us from the terrible army of the Haccapelites"

But they propably where very busy praying throughout the war, so this doesnt prove that much.
Back to Top
kalhur View Drop Down
Earl
Earl


Joined: 23-Jan-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 263
  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2010 at 15:56
Originally posted by rapala

Originally posted by nomooon

thanks for the detailed information on these horsemen! Not that I was terribly interested in these horsemen before ( even though I am a fan of Gustav's achievements), but the way you explained to us is very interesting!


Remember, they weren't that impresive as they sound like, ever played empire total war, those units are the far worst of the worst of all cavalry units, even untrained dragoons could beat them up in melee combat.
oh noooooooo
 rapala you are exagerating  here. finnish are known to be very good fighters have you forget - finn-russian warShocked and they deserve much more from you
 the main reason for lack of disiplin was maybe the bad  language communication between swedish speaking officers and finnish soldiers,
 nothing was wrong with finnish braves!! and i love my tikkakoski hunting rifles Thumbs Up
Back to Top
sakoneee View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 16-Jul-2014
Location: Finland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1
  Quote sakoneee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2014 at 13:49
you are, rapala, telling something that has nothing to do with truth. and yes, im finn, and im not being ultra nationalist right now but i see you know nothing about haccapelites
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.