Creation of Kurdistan (PKK's holy goal)

How can an administrator in a fine historical forum could open a thread like this. I cant really believe this, he is trying to provocate the members. PKK is a terrorist group and my family lost 2 of our member against them.

es_bih:

Lets keep the discussion as members. Please take questions about the staff to proper channels (PM'ing an Admin, staff member, etc...)

Edited by es_bih - 27-Jan-2009 at 18:52

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri People have the same right to live as you have, when you kill them, it is possible that you are killed by them too. People have utterly selfish definition of "Terrorism", Turks say Kurds are terrorists and Israelis say it about Palestinians, in fact it seems terrorists are just those, especially ethnic people, who fight against the rulers.

We turks never say kurds as terrorists. Turkish soldiers does not kill kurdish citizens. They are killing only the ones who declare war on Turkish republic. We are living with them peacefully. For example in my hospital we are managing all  Turkish citizens equally(We dont know who is kurd, laz ,etc). We dont ask their nationality.. Secondly we are not Israel.  

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Our enemy is just the current regime of Iran, so USA and Israel are in fact the best friends of Iranian people.

i think your missing the point in my post. They tend to be enemies of Iranians not your regime, get it?

The shah was booted out because he started to talk out of line, look at his last interview. Who helped the revolution? the Anglos/French. Then who helped Saddam attack Iran? the Anglos/French and puppets. They didnt like what their little plan actaully did when the Mullahs killed of the rest their fellow revolutanaries. Who gets killed? Iranians.

Get a grip, theve been screwing your country for a very long time. The only way you can be safe is to have a puppet regime speak about democaracy as Chevron and Co pirate out your wealth.

There were Kurdish rebellions in the first half of the 20th century, but as you wrote they were not nationalist in character. Main reasons behind them were: 

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi There were Kurdish rebellions in the first half of the 20th century, but as you wrote they were not nationalist in character.

True. But the organizing efforts for a major rebellion in the early 20s were those of the Azadi, whose motives were not religious, rather ethnic ones. Of course, inside the Azadi where members of the traditional elite, whose motives were religious or, simply, individualistic. They took over after 1924 and carried out the rebellion in 1925. So we can say that , for a glimpse of time, between 1921-24 there was some kind of proto-nationalistic activity in the Kurdish regions.

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi  Main reasons behind them were:  a. The new Turkish Republic's move to increase its authority in regions which were living in a state of autonomy (like Dersim).     b. The Allied attempts to provoke the Kurds against Turkey. Kurdish uprisings before and after the Turkish Independence War are like this. The British, however, had plans to create a mandate of Kurdistan and they surely have invented a Kurdish movement to justify their plans. Typical imperialist plotting.   c. Similar to the point a, the Turkish state's attempt to modernise (and westernise) the country met with resistance from reactionaries both Turkish and Kurdish, which provided some of the popular appeal.

Hmm. I am leaning towards the first reason. Your third reason could be, also, part of the first. From what i've read, and seems logical, the abolition of the Caliphate marked the end of the status of the traditional elite in its relation with the center. During the War of Independence , kemal Ataturk used Islam and the Caliphate as a symbol for the alliance between Kurds and Turks, against the Christian invader. But the abolition of the Caliphate meant the end of the alliance and the will of the new national center to impose itself in the , until then, autonomous periphery.

Turkish court bans pro-Kurd party

Turkey's Constitutional Court has voted to ban the country's largest pro-Kurdish party because of alleged links with Kurdish separatist rebels.

Turkey's chief prosecutor Abdurrahman Yalcinkaya argued that the Democratic Society Party (DTP) took orders from the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK).

The DTP is the latest in a series of pro-Kurdish parties to have been closed down in Turkey.

The case has been criticised by the EU, which Turkey hopes to join.

The 11 judges in the Constitutional Court ruled that the DTP had become a "focal point of activities against the indivisible unity of the state, the country and the nation", court president Hasim Kilic told reporters.

He said DTP leaders Ahmet Turk and Aysel Tugluk had been stripped of parliamentary immunity and banned from politics for five years along with 35 other party members.

All party assets would be seized by the treasury, Mr Kilic added.

The DTP holds 21 seats in Turkey's 550-member parliament.


Some 40,000 people have died since the outlawed PKK launched an armed campaign in the mainly Kurdish south-east in 1984.

The BBC's Jonathan Head, in Istanbul, says the DTP's ban is another blow to the government's hopes of ending the conflict.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has tried to push through a package of reforms aimed at winning over the alienated Kurdish community and persuading militants to lay down their weapons.

Reacting to the ban, DTP chairman Mr Turk said it would not help to end the 25-year conflict.

"Turkey cannot resolve this problem by closing down parties," he said.

The court case has already caused unrest in Kurdish areas.

In the city of Hakkari - near the Iran and Iraq borders - Turkish police used water canon to break up a protest by Kurdish rebel supporters on Friday, Anatolia news agency reported.

Kurds make up about 20% of Turkey's population of more than 70 million.

The PKK is listed as a terrorist organisation by Turkey, the EU and the US.

Btw, Cyrus, the title of this thread is misleading. A separate Kurdish country is the goal of every Kurd, it's just that some Kurds want their basic rights first ;)

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri The problem is that there is no country in the world that strongly support Iranian-speaking peoples, at least like what Turkey does about Turkic peoples, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkuk -> "Turkey has given assurances to the Iraqi Turkmen Front that should Kurds try to annex Kirkuk, or hurt the interests of Iraq's Turkmen it will prevent this by invading Northern Iraq including Kirkuk." But no one will complain, if Turkey opresses the Kurds or Pakistan does it about Baluchis!

The only reason the Turkish generals support Iraqi Turkmen Front is because of the oil, not because of the people and their homes. These generals have transferred thousands of thousands of guns and cash to Turkmen groups, not to build up their homes, not to buy their children food and water - but to disrupt the region so that the Iraqi and Kurdish government can't come to a conclusion regarding the Kerkûk issue - article 140, remember ?

A.