human origin debate (out-of-africa?)

The other day I saw on a documentary a theory that challenges the date at which humans left Africa.

It was about natural castastrofes, and it told the story of the Toba Volcano that exploded in Indonesia 75,000 years ago that caused major climate change and wiped out a large percentage of humans, especially those in the Indian sub-continente.

The program claims to back up its findings by studying the DNA of modern Indians, which discovered much few diversity than expected; and concluded that they underwent a population bottleneck around 75,000 years ago, coinciding with the date of the disaster.

However, according to the latest proponents of the Out-Of-Africa theory, human beings left Africa as late as 60,000 years ago; so if the Toba volcano exploded 75,000 years ago, it should not have had any effect on the genetic composition of modern Indians; because their ancestors had not even arrived there.

Does anyone have any more info?

It's true that there are no races. But that's because it's called subspecies nowadays. It's just wordplay. If we don't like such narrow categorizing, it just means that "race" as a concept is rejected. That doesn't change the fact that we're different, both on a global scale, and on a personal scale.

Edited by Jams - 22-Mar-2009 at 13:11

Only classification after relation is relevant. Maybe here are some exceptions (like polar bears, an extreme example) but generally it is relation that determines this. It's just that there was no real way to determine that in the past, which are why other methods were used, but now we have some idea, because of genetics. I'm not saying it's perfect as is, but I'm sure we're getting closer, no?

 

Anyway, if they're not subspecies, then they aren't races, but just remember one thing - some animals that are classified as subspecies don't differ any more than the biggest difference among humans.

 

Edited by Jams - 22-Mar-2009 at 18:25

Originally posted by PirMani Well if Genetics proved the out of Africa as the scientific fact like big-bang theory(yet to become fact) then please do not start to make up theories out of your feelings. The losers in this era are: Jews, white zigzagz and all those supremacy gigs. Recently Obama quoted from the Persian Poet of 13th Cen. Saadi All human races have come from one origin (gem) etc.

Anthropology is more than physical anthropology, just FYI. Anyway, maybe some people have agendas of some kind, but I'm no mind reader. Sure, there's this and that person that subscribe to something like that, but I don't think that's what the forums are about. It all depends on the people who post there in the end, and what they post.

It's just a pastime anyway.

Originally posted by Jams Anthropology is more than physical anthropology, just FYI. Anyway, maybe some people have agendas of some kind, but I'm no mind reader. Sure, there's this and that person that subscribe to something like that, but I don't think that's what the forums are about. It all depends on the people who post there in the end, and what they post. It's just a pastime anyway.

Sometimes the agenda can be rather hidden in the way it is expressed. For example, in neo-nazi sites they are more transparent, making statements like:
"Africans are unable to build civilizations due to their biological limitations".

In more subtle pseudo-scientific sites, the wording could be:
"Mutation mark X is found among European and Asian populations but abscent in Africans; probably as a result of adaptation to crowded living conditions. It could be the explanation as to why civilizations rose in Asia and Europe."

The phrasing of this second sentence could sound politically neutral, but nevertheless, it is implying exactly the same thing as the first.

What I'm most suspect about the "racial reality" site, as well as the posts of this guy on the other forum is his insistence on the existence of biological distinct races.
He founded his argument on a genetic clustering experiment performed by Noah Rosenberg; demonstrating that a portion of human genes is dependent on geographical origin. Yet the very scientist Rosenberg himself said that "this does not necessarily imply that race exists".

Basically, it is manipulation by demonstrating the facts that are relevant to his agenda, and hiding those who are not.