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Maharbbal View Drop Down
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Posts: 2120 		  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Need help with Shakespeare
    Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 22:02
Hi,

On the web the French translation of a Shakespeare quote is going around quite a bit but I have no idea where it comes from nor what is the actual English version. It goes as follow:

"Ils ont échoué
parce qu’ils n’avaient
pas commencé par
le rêve.”

"They failed
because they didn't
start by/with
the dream"

It really puzzles me, if someone could help me I'd really appreciate.

Thanks
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xi_tujue View Drop Down
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2008 at 08:26
They have failed
because they had not (Conditional)
Start with
the dream

Edited by xi_tujue - 25-Nov-2008 at 12:14
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2008 at 11:48
Originally posted by Maharbbal

Hi,

On the web the French translation of a Shakespeare quote is going around quite a bit but I have no idea where it comes from nor what is the actual English version. It goes as follow:

"Ils ont échoué
parce qu’ils n’avaient
pas commencé par
le rêve.”

"They failed
because they didn't
start by/with
the dream"

It really puzzles me, if someone could help me I'd really appreciate.

Thanks
 
This is a toughie. http://www.rhymezone.com/r/ss.cgi?q=&mode=k is a pretty good resource but I can't spot anything that looks likely for 'dream' or 'fail'.
 
I'm lunching with some theatrical friends tomorrow, I'll see if they have any ideas. I don't recognise the quote offhand myself.
 
Incidentally 'avaient commencé' there is not conditional but pluperfect, no? Which puristically would mean 'because they had not started' but your version sounds better.Smile
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Nov-2008 at 15:05

No-one got the reference but we're spreading the word around.

In the meantime it was pointed out to me that Edward Seymour's new translation of Goethe's The Natural Daughter has the line "They fail because they start without a plan" which translates the German original
"... so endet ohne Glück,
Was ohne Plan zufällig sie begonnen."
(Act IV Scene IV).
I know Seymour didn't have Shakespeare in mind, because I asked him. Could Goethe have been referring to some Shakespearean source?
 
 
 
 
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2008 at 13:59
I get the following from a friend of mine:
An answer to the problem of the Shakespeare quote is suggested in a discussion on a Yahoo France Questions et Réponses forum, where a contributor notes:
'Au fait, il s'avère que l'auteur de la phrase est bien un Shakespeare, mais pas William.
Elle est tirée de la Vision d'Elena Silves de Nicholas Shakespeare.'
Alas, I don't know much about N Shakespeare other than that he lived in South America,
worked for the Daily Telegraph and has scripted or co-scripted some TV documentaries. The novel The Vision of Elena Silves appeared in 1989 but may now be out of print.
Regards,
Geoff
 


Edited by gcle2003 - 27-Nov-2008 at 14:00
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Maharbbal View Drop Down
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Posts: 2120 		  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2008 at 19:33
G, sorry I posted that same message a few days ago on AE plus warm thanks for you and your buff friends.

Sorry, thanks again... a lot

Feel really ashame to have mistaken Nich and Will
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2008 at 21:11
You weren't alone....Embarrassed
 
I bet most of the people quoting it thought it was from Will not Nick.
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