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Star and Crescent
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Star and Crescent
    Posted: 08-Jul-2008 at 00:51
The Star and Crescent has been used by various peoples since ancient times across vaste geographical areas.
 
The use of Star and Crescent in the muslim world is a result of the Turks expansion and dominance. The star and crescent had a spiritual/religous significance to the pre-muslim Turks, they kept using this emblem mainly due to tribal tamgas/flags ie the Kayi clan used the Crescent and the millitary. The marching bands used flag poles which were decorated by Crescent and moon, wolf heads, horsetails or Holy Qur'an boxes.
 
Then ofcourse there is the folklore, legends, myths which come with any symbol or emblems.
 
And then there are other nations which used the crescent and star as well.
 
In conclusion, the crescent and moon symbol has been used by many nations in the past, however, its popularity in the muslim world is mainly due to the Turks.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2008 at 21:16
The cresent was also used in Rome i believe.
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 23:25

The cresent appears in Chistian art as well.  Some art depicting the the Virgin Mary (mother of Jesus) shows her standing over a cresent.  Some explanations say that this symbolizes Christianity's dominance over older pagan religions. Others say that the crescent is a pagan symbol for female divinity and was thus incorporated into Christian art to show the Virgin's special status.



Edited by Cryptic - 05-Aug-2008 at 23:29
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Posts: 884 		  Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 04:27
Alot of modern revisionists try to make Christianity (Orthodox from my perspective) as having adopted certain pagan elements into them but this is contrary to the theology and to history in which Christianity was quite staunchly against the pagan faiths. People site the dates of christmas and pascha being on traditional pagan holidays but this was done so that the Christians went to the Christian worship rather then the pagan. It was a move to replace not accomodate.
 
 
Anyway, I think the theory of it being a symbol of nobility in constantinople is the strongest so far.
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 09:07
same could be said for the crusifix imo
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 884 		  Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 09:14
Originally posted by xi_tujue

same could be said for the crusifix imo
 
Not really. Christ was crusified but it isn't the pieces of wood which are venerated but the sacrifice and act of love.
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 09:48
be4 that it was used to punish to worst kinds of criminals and still afterwards

the cruifixtion of Jesus Christ (pbuh) is just a exception

humans make symbols and believe in them so they can change the meaning of one



Edited by xi_tujue - 12-Aug-2008 at 09:50
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 884 		  Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 18:34

Yes but again Christians don't worship the "punishment method" but what it represents, the bridge between our world and God, redemption, salvation to the Faithful.

 
I think it was Saint John of Damascus who said (paraphrasing) "When the cross is shown I venerate it for it symbolizes the love of God to man kind, but when the boards are broken in two it means nothing to me and I burn it as wood."
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 19:38
thats a perfect example symbols are what we make them, what we believe they are
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 884 		  Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 20:14
That's kind of an obvious statement. Water is wet, fire is hot etc etc. What Symbol isn't what we make it?
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Posts: 69 		  Quote Mercury_Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2008 at 17:28
I was told that it was a symbol of security for the early Arab tribes who would travel the desert by day, and park thier caravans at night, and socialize. The caravans offered security, and the moon was a symbol of not being insanely hot.

I suppose I'm wrong, I had only asked a common businessman. It sounded far more romantic though. They say the Star of David was a symbol of Venus.
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Posts: 409 		  Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2009 at 11:37
 
 
Originally posted by Bulldog

 
 
The use of Star and Crescent in the muslim world is a result of the Turks expansion and dominance.
 
 
 
They were the people Chinese referred to as " 月氏 = Yue Zhi ".
 
 
 
 
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Posts: 8595 		  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 16:45
Would that make them the Eastern Saka then?
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Posts: 409 		  Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2009 at 03:54
 
I wouldn't think so.Saka or Scythians were a seperate people,Yuezhi definitely not an offshoot.
 
 
note: 古代波斯人稱之為 Saka 塞克人 = ancient Persians referred those tribes as Saka.
 
 
 
 
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Posts: 8595 		  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2009 at 16:54

Some of the Yuezhi formed the Kushan Empire and are thought to have been or were closely related to the Tocharians.  However, according to this page the Eastern Schythians could also have been the Yuezhi.

http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/Centasia3.html#Sakae

http://www.famouschinese.com/virtual/Yuezhi




Edited by Seko - 06-Mar-2009 at 17:00
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Posts: 957 		  Quote MengTzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2011 at 19:36
Originally posted by Leonidas

This is very true. You can find most symbols going further back than their current use with hints in their meaning still carrying on even if they do change over time. The moon carrys on with the Virgin Mary for instance in some iconograhy (AFAIK latin catholic). though instead of being on her head, its on her feet.
 
The imagery of Mary standing on the moon is a Biblical reference, not a pagan carry-over: "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered."  (Revelation 12:1-12:2)
 
Traditionally, the Catholics generally believe that this woman who appeared in the sky is Mary or a representation of Mary.  Accordingly, many Catholic religious arts depict Mary as standing on the moon.  (Note: the Catholics also believe it is possible for the same Biblical symbol can have more than one meaning.  For example, many Catholics believe that the woman can also be a symbol of Mary as well as of the Church.) 


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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2011 at 02:22
Last Crescent=Osiris=waning crescent and star Venus(Inanna of Sumerians and Ishtar of Babylonians)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_and_crescent
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29164


Edited by medenaywe - 12-Mar-2011 at 02:45
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