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2 immense Easter Island achievements
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2 immense Easter Island achievements
    Posted: 12-Apr-2008 at 04:40
Originally posted by rider

To be honest, I've seen quite few works that have been believable and have spoken about the possibility of the trip that John Cabot did in 1497 - making him reaching the continental North America before others.
 
That's curious, Rider. I always knew Cabot was the first European to reach North America during the Age of Discovery. Of course, the absolutely first European to do that was the norse Leif Ericsson but, unfortunately for him, very few people knew about its achievements before the 19th century LOL, and he was forgotten by history already in the 15th century.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2008 at 05:20
Originally posted by Sander

Well then, read some specialized academic papers instead of that Hall of Maat stuff ! Wink
 
Then you would also know that , for decades,  pre- contact kumara cultivation is generally agreed. Just as it is scientifically established to be pre european in the americas, so it is for the pacific. Both are hard to deny . See for example link to the PNAS article that next to the chicken research , mentions some studies about the pre-contact sweet potato.
 
Regarding the chicken. I mentioned conclusive and if you know what conclusive means in academic reseach , you will easily reckonize that the chicken evidence is presented in the article as conclusive evidence for contact. Hint: read the part under the heading conclusion.  
 
That those researchers from the involved universities/instutions - not only American, Australian, New Zealand  but even Chilenean (Ramirez , Universidad  de Valparaiso) -regard it as conclusive aint surprising. Domesticated chickens that live on Polynesian islands in the middle of the open ocean dont leave them and cross 1000 miles of open water to a continent unless aided by humans.
 
...
Conclusion
 
This article presents well dated and securely provenienced evidence of a pre-Columbian chicken introduction to the Americas. We are not suggesting that the El Arenal-1 site represents the exact location of introduction or that the related date corresponds to the first or only introduction of chicken to South America. The date corresponds well with current archaeological evidence for the eastward expansion of the Polynesians. Most importantly, the current results demonstrate that chickens with a Polynesian genetic signature reached the south central coast of Chile before European contact with the Americas. Further analyses of additional samples from East Polynesia and South America may allow us to narrow down the source population and timing of introduction of chickens to the Americas. In addition, further archaeological research to examine possible points and timing of contact(s) along the coast and on the coastal islands of South America is clearly warranted.
 
 
 
 
Quite interesting, indeed. The likelihood of a pre-columbian Polynesian origin for the Araucana chicken is very high, according to that research. However, does it proves that Polynesian visited the Americas, directly? I would say, no.
 
The problem is the following. Of course chickens don't fly so they can't cross an ocean so vast like the Pacific by its own means LOL. They have to reached the Americas in a floating platform with food to survive. For that, though, it is not necesary that humans accompanied them.
 
Sound weird? Nope.
 
Although Polynesians were very skillful, they lost many expeditions and theirs legend record people that went into exploring the ocean and that never returned. Many of those expeditions ended in tragedy. It is very likely one of those boats lost its tripulation and survived with some chicken at sea during a month or so, reaching the Americas. Or it is also very likely Polynesians reached the Americas and were killed on site. Which was what the Mapuches usually did with foreign sailors up to recent times Wink. In both cases, the boats served to carried the chickens but the sailors didn't survive the journey.
 
That's why I ask for archaeological and other evidences to corraborate a contact that, by your evidence shown above, it is very likely to happens.
 
By the way, I got the suspiction that contact really happened, because certain cultural patterns I have already mentioned. However, while there is not a Polynesian site or archeological remains of Polynesian presence in the Americas, the proof would continue to be weak.
 
By the way, this is the famous Araucanian (Mapuche) Chicken, which lacks a "tail" and that put blue eggs. Very weird, indeed
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2008 at 17:11
And you just proved my statement? What's so funny in that...?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2008 at 01:46
Originally posted by rider

And you just proved my statement? What's so funny in that...?
 
Well, for me it is funny the comparison between Leif Ericsson and Christopher Columbus. First, because the epic of Ericsson was just crossing from Greenland to Labrador in a very boring trip. In fact, in clear days it is possible to see the Americas from Greenland, so there wasn't anything extraordinary in that trip. Perhaps more important that Ericsson landing it was Eric the Red reaching Greenland. That was really an interesting trip, just considering the distance it separates Greenland from Iceland.... Well, not that much, but in those times that distance could have been considered huge.
 
Anyways, even more funny is that nor Ericsson or Columbus had any idea of what they were doing LOL. The first guy that realized a New World was there at the West it was Americo Vespucci, and that's way the Western Hemisphere carries his name.
 
 
 
 
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Posts: 597 		  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2008 at 03:35
 
Originally posted by Pinguin

 
Quite interesting, indeed. The likelihood of a pre-columbian Polynesian origin for the Araucana chicken is very high, according to that research. However, does it proves that Polynesian visited the Americas, directly? I would say, no.
 
The problem is the following. Of course chickens don't fly so they can't cross an ocean so vast like the Pacific by its own means LOL. They have to reached the Americas in a floating platform with food to survive. For that, though, it is not necesary that humans accompanied them.
 
Sound weird? Nope.
 
 
Weird ? Dont be modest , Its priceless.  Behold , the surfing chicken doing 1000 's miles ! LOL
Pinguin,  go to the open sea , throw a plank or treetrunk in it. You see the sea moving ? the waves ? Do you see the plank making circles, going up and down ? You see the water going over it?  Now, throw a chicken on it . How many minutes we give it? Whoops ! a high wave , splash ! See it floating for some time. too bad, the feathers aint waterproof. What a waste of a good chicken. Cry
 
We concentrate on  the attested processes,  human mediated transmission. 
 
Originally posted by Pinguin

 
Many of those expeditions ended in tragedy. It is very likely one of those boats lost its tripulation and survived with some chicken at sea during a month or so, reaching the Americas. ..
 
 
Not likely at all. Without Polynesians on it , its at the sea bottom pretty soon. Polynesian vessels were seaworthy for very long distances but only as long as Polynesian took care of it. Bailing from the crew is needed , because of leaking and water going over the freeboard.
 
"We know that the former big voyaging canoes did leak at the seams and required bailing as indeed all seagoing canoes do today.  But this fact reflects the difficulty of obtaining watertight joinings betweens planks of flexible vessels and is not related to structural strenght. " ( Lewis 1975 :79 )
 
Therefore, Pinguin.  It would appreciated if you refer to relevant studies when you assert something . Thanx  

Lewis , David, We, The Navigators: The Ancient Art of Landfinding in the Pacific, University of Hawaii Press, Honolulu, 1975.

 Star
 
Indeed, the cultural and linguistic connection between the Polynesians and Mapuche is discussed in several papers. It seems that the researchers of University Berkely California and Universidad de Valparairosa, involved in several reseach projects on the polynesian -america contact have pretty much accepted precolumbian arrival of Polynesians and exchanging in some fields. Research is concentrating on the extent of the mutual influences and narrowing down the time of arrival(s). More of this later.
 


Edited by Sander - 15-Apr-2008 at 06:27
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2008 at 03:42
Originally posted by Sander

.... 
 Indeed, the cultural and linguistic connection between the Polynesians and Mapuche is discussed in several papers. It seems that the researchers of University Berkely California and Universidad de Valparairosa, involved in several reseach projects on the polynesian -america contact have pretty much accepted precolumbian arrival of Polynesians and exchanging in some fields. Research is concentrating on the extent of the mutual influences and narrowing down the time of arrival(s). More of this later.
 
 
"Valparairosa". Do you mean Valparaiso? Confused
 
Polynesian similar to Mapudungun? That's weird. I woud never have imagined a connection. Is like comparing Spanish with Korean. In fact I could never confuse "Iorana" with "Mari Mari". I know a little bit of both, given that they are languages of the original peoples of my country.
 
Some researchers are pretty wild, indeed. I still can recall the time when Thor Heyyerdhal was a "prestigious" anthropologist; unlike today when he is seen as a clown LOL
 
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 15-Apr-2008 at 03:43
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Posts: 597 		  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2008 at 04:27
Originally posted by pinguin

Originally posted by Sander

.... 
 Indeed, the cultural and linguistic connection between the Polynesians and Mapuche is discussed in several papers. It seems that the researchers of University Berkely California and Universidad de Valparairosa, involved in several reseach projects on the polynesian -america contact have pretty much accepted precolumbian arrival of Polynesians and exchanging in some fields. Research is concentrating on the extent of the mutual influences and narrowing down the time of arrival(s). More of this later.
 
 
"Valparairosa". Do you mean Valparaiso? Confused
 
Polynesian similar to Mapudungun? That's weird. I woud never have imagined a connection. Is like comparing Spanish with Korean. In fact I could never confuse "Iorana" with "Mari Mari". I know a little bit of both, given that they are languages of the original peoples of my country.
 
Some researchers are pretty wild, indeed. I still can recall the time when Thor Heyyerdhal was a "prestigious" anthropologist; unlike today when he is seen as a clown LOL
  
 
Connection aint the same  as  affiliation/common origin of  the languages.Wink   That aint the case. What they mean is a linguistic connection regarding some loanwords.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Sander - 15-Apr-2008 at 05:00
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2008 at 05:27
Well, linguistic pseudoscience of matchings is the more common hoax in pseudo-history. Clowns of all caliber use pattern matching in linguistic to prove that the first Chineses were Black and that the Greek is related with Indonesian.
 
I learn that in the Hall of Maat LOL
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2008 at 04:41
 
Maui man takes canoe navigation high-tech
 

A Maui man who worked on the groundbreaking computer-generated film "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within" is using the same cutting-edge technology to preserve and spread knowledge of two ancient Hawaiian traditions.

Ronald Perry, proprietor of Pacific Archiving of Napili, hopes to launch interactive Polynesian navigation simulation software in June and has a longer-term project to archive hula performances using motion-capture technology the technique employed to create lifelike characters in "Final Fantasy," which was released last year.

Perry, 34, worked as technical director/set designer for the $135 million film's Motion Capture Department and was also technical director of the acclaimed 'Ulalena stage show in Lahaina until October. He is probably better known for using computers to design award-winning sets, sound, lights and special effects for Honolulu theater productions.

The Punahou alumnus said a lifelong love of sailing and appreciation for the feats of Polynesian seafarers inspired him to tackle the navigation simulation project, meant for education and entertainment.

The simulation will allow users to travel in a traditional double-hulled voyaging canoe among 300 Pacific islands using celestial markers and other indicators, such as driftwood and seabirds. Perry said users don't need to be familiar with astronomy or ocean currents to play.

Users start by choosing a location from a clickable map, coordinates, or random placement within Oceania. Navigators are given no additional information and are left to explore by their own devices.

The primary screen is an interactive 3-D view from the canoe deck. The user is restricted to the vessel, but the canoe can sail and steer in any direction, except into the wind. Stars in the sky can be highlighted, connected or named for use as personal indicators.

As the voyage progresses, navigators must react to storms, cloudy nights when the stars are not visible, and other weather and ocean conditions.

Perry said he is still refining the project but plans to have the simulation ready for sale as a CD-ROM or downloadable from his Web site by summer.

The Polynesian navigation software is targeted at upper elementary school ages and older.

While finishing work on the simulation, Pacific Archiving's chief business remains virtual tours of vacation rentals, luxury real-estate properties and other projects, such as a virtual tour of the Maui Arts & Cultural Center's Castle Theater and a computer model of a newly designed foot strap for windsurfing.

Perry is also making arrangements to acquire a portable motion-capture system that will allow him to visit different hula halau and record dance movements. Using markers placed on different parts of the human body and multiple cameras, motion-capture photography records sequences of movement and generates three-dimensional information.

The computer archive of hula performances could be used for instruction and to preserve the unique styles of prominent kumu hula, Perry said. Users who access the archive for a fee would be able to control the animation and manipulate the camera controls to study the performance from any point of view.

Perry said he has received an enthusiastic response from the kumu hula about the project.

O'ahu kumu hula John Keola Lake, who is working with Bishop Museum on a special hula exhibit to open early next year, said that, generally, he sees nothing wrong with mixing ancient art and modern technology.

"With the technology we have today, we've got to move with it and use it. As long as it doesn't offend anyone and it preserves the integrity, that's great," he said.

More information on Perry's work is on the Web.

Reach Christie Wilson at cwilson@honoluluadvertiser.com or (808)244-4880.
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