High Court Hears Debate Over Commandments

Where in the U.S. constitution or Bill of Rights does it say anything about seperation of Church and State?

Freedom of religion says congress shall not support nor suppress any religious belief. Unfortunately removing the ten commandments supports non-religiousness, which is against the constitution, but putting them up is also against the constitution, also banning them being put up is against the constitution.

If a computer brain read that law it would explode.

Originally posted by JanusRook Where in the U.S. constitution or Bill of Rights does it say anything about seperation of Church and State? Freedom of religion says congress shall not support nor suppress any religious belief. Unfortunately removing the ten commandments supports non-religiousness, which is against the constitution, but putting them up is also against the constitution, also banning them being put up is against the constitution. If a computer brain read that law it would explode.

The government is definitely establishing or endorsing a religion when it posts sacred texts or symbols. When it restraints from doing so, it is simply not saying anything about the subject, the way it should be.

I don't see any problems with having a rock with the ten commandmends, as long as it's not ordered and paid for by the goverment

Originally posted by hugoestr Is the ACLU trying to erase the historical Christian foundations of the U.S. as they try as push their socialistic agenda on us? The ACLU is defending the rights of people to practice their beliefs without having the state tacitly oppressing their beliefs. Nothing more patriotic and American than defending the rights found on the Constititution. They pervert the constitution!! The real question is : are Christian Fundamentalists trying to establish Christianity as the official religion of the U.S., ignoring the secularism of the founding fathers, as they push t The answer is yes.

That is your opinion but from many Americans perspective the Answer is no!!!

heir theocratic fascistic agenda on us? right- I know many Christains and nothing can be further from the truth- nice try but this is your standard liberal assault!!

I agree with Michael Savage the ACLU is the enemy within. In my opinion they are a bunch of anti American communists. (in my humble opinion!!)
They have done some good but they also defend certain lifestyles that are wrong in my opinion and porn. I am not a Christian but I can see why the ACLU upsets them, different values. They defended NAMBLA!!!
Please, show me in the Bill of Right and the U.S. Constitution where it says separation of Church and state?
Their attack on the boy scouts is totally wrong and they tend to sue (black mail) school districts over issues that has nothing to do with what our founding fathers intended, most of the founding fathers were Christians or Masons!! The U.S. constitution is also supposed to protect religious expression as well!! (Even in public)
I know about the amendment from Jefferson which was an attempt to make sure that an official church would not be established in America like the Church of England and I agree with that 100%.
But, filing a law suit to have WWI cemetery crosses removed is wrong.
The ACLU are the ones who have pressured the military to prosecute 2nd Lt. Ilario Pantano, U.S.M.C., a war hero.
They want to deball our military just like they have deballed our police.
I oppose brutality but they go too far!!
I respect your views though and the right to believe and express them!! I am not trying to change your mind but just stating where I stand.
In some ways it is good to have two extremes because you tend to come to a balance or at least hopefully- ying and yang!!

ACLU would like to stamp out Christianity period!!


Edited by eaglecap

The ACLU is good for nothing. They go around criticizing Christians while ignoring other religions with even larger problems the Christians.  They should actually concentrate on something worth while instead of trying to take down sybols that cause no harm.  They would rather have a Swastica hanging up in a public building rather than the Ten Commandments.  How sad...!

Eaglecap,

Since I like you so much because you started the beer thread, I will not debate without quarters this issue with you. Instead, I will try to reach some kind of understanding.

You asked me to point out where does the U.S. Constitution establishes separation of Church and State? Here, in the First Amendment.

Originally posted by Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

It is the first sentence, up to the first semicolon. There are two ways to establish religion: with a law doing so, and tacitly, by braking the law and engaging in religious ceremonies and having religious symbols in public places.

The country has no constitutional mandate to celebrate its historical heritage, be political, artistic, or religious. It does have a mandate to keep the state away endorsing any religion.

Symbols can be very powerful. If I were Jewish and went to a court, and the Nazi flag was displayed on the wall, I would feel intimidated and distrustful of the court.

If I were black and went to a court, and they have pictures of Klansmen on the walls, I would feel intimidated and distrustful of the court.

If I were a Protestant and went to a court, and they have a picture of the Pope on the wall, I would feel intimidated and distrustful of the court.

If I were a born-again Christian and went to a court, and they had quotes from the Koran on the walls, I would be intimidated and distrustful of the court.

If you think this last scenario is far-fetched, I will remind you that there are communities in Michigan and Minnesota were Muslims are the majority. Eventually they will gain political power, and these communities may want to express their common religious bond in public places like schools and courtrooms, just as Evangelical Christians want to do today.

The bill of rights is in place so that the majority will not take away the rights of the minority, whoever they are. It may be you one day. The ACLU fights to keep enforcement of the bill of rights, no matter how much the majority hates the minority. This is the true American heritage.

Finally, your comments about the ACLU are colored by what Micheal Savage has said about it. It seems that he has been feeding you lies like their advocatingthe removal of religious symbols from graves. Please go to the ACLU site. and read the true goals of the ACLU.

One of my ancestors was a pilgrim who came over on the Mayflower, his name was Edward Doty. The state I live in, Connecticut, basicly wrote the rough draft for the constitution. My family is from a Christian backround. I went to a catholic school, just for the better education when I was young, so I learned the basics of Christianity I guess you can say. I also learned not to beleave in anything Christian there also when I made my own thoughts and questioned things.

The writers wanted to make men all equal, not keep tradition. Tradition was from England, the people they were escaping from for having a monarchy which is basicly a tradition of leadership and the church which forced its will on people. So if everyone is to be equal, which is the American idealogy, then we either must take away a stone that represents a religeon more then the country itself, or add other religeous representations to make it equal.

Americans were founded by christian backround, if they wanted our country to support religeon in anyway they would have put it into the constitution. And all religeous commandments are human morals. You can find the same laws anywhere in the world in any culture. Romans laws said you couldn't kill or steal, the ten commandments also said you have to stay with the person you married, yet today everyone is divorcing and yet no one is getting arrested for it, so marriage isn't really one of our major morals.

Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy One of my ancestors was a pilgrim who came over on the Mayflower, his name was Edward Doty. The state I live in, Connecticut, basicly wrote the rough draft for the constitution. My family is from a Christian backround. I went to a catholic school, just for the better education when I was young, so I learned the basics of Christianity I guess you can say. I also learned not to beleave in anything Christian there also when I made my own thoughts and questioned things. The writers wanted to make men all equal, not keep tradition. Tradition was from England, the people they were escaping from for having a monarchy which is basicly a tradition of leadership and the church which forced its will on people. So if everyone is to be equal, which is the American idealogy, then we either must take away a stone that represents a religeon more then the country itself, or add other religeous representations to make it equal. Americans were founded by christian backround, if they wanted our country to support religeon in anyway they would have put it into the constitution. And all religeous commandments are human morals. You can find the same laws anywhere in the world in any culture. Romans laws said you couldn't kill or steal, the ten commandments also said you have to stay with the person you married, yet today everyone is divorcing and yet no one is getting arrested for it, so marriage isn't really one of our major morals.

That is neat!!! My Dutch ancestors came in the mid 1600s' after the Mayflower and later my French and English ancestors came in the early 1700s'. My Irish side came later in the 1840's and the German 1870.
My mother's parents came from Europe in the early 1920's. So, it is neat to have immigrant roots and roots that go way back. In our family tree one of our ancestors was Iriquois.

I still think its a horrible idea, everything starts off small and then it continues to grow and get worse. Once the religeons win one fight they'll move on to more religeous movements. History shows things just get worse and worse, and I'm really not up for a full fledged "Christian Taliban" like Tobodai said in another thread.