Originally posted by Gharanai
Originally posted by nick
Over 75% of Pakistani culture is almost same as Indic Muslim culture or I shell say Hindu-Muslims, as they used to be called
before 1947. From the Punjabi wedding to Food to their celebration of Eid, to even Passand (Kit flying day in mid spiring)
The Others like Minoritiy Pashtu speakers have a culture far different from those of Punjabis/Sindhis. Going to those areas
which are internationally part of Pakistani map, feels like being in Afghanistan. From their food to their customs, to their
music, to their dances, to their celebrations.
Language:
North-Western Pakistan speak a different langauge, more like Awestian dialect, where as rest of Pakistanis speak Urdu which
is same as Hindi which roots itself to sanskirti.
The North Western People of so called Pakistan have a different way of looking at this state called "Pakistan" they are
tribal people like Afghanistan but does not want any troops or any men other than their own race/People standing with weapon.
Most of them are nationalist who doesn't like the name Pakistan, and some modenr Pashtu speakers respect the name for the
sake of Islam. Now I would not far more than what i have said but you do the research.
|
Dear nick, I would like to present you with what I know (which is little compared to your knowledge) about Pakistan. The word PAK in Pakistan stands for Punjab Afghanistan Kashmir, and you know that uptill 1893 there was no line/border by the
name of Durand line, in order to save their intereset and save the shame of twice defeat, the Britain implemented the best
policy of their, which is of Divide and Rule. They put a treaty with the Amir of Afghanistan that in order to stop any further trouble or war between Afghanistan and
Britain India there shall be a remote independent buffer state where both countries agreed on giving some of their land to
this buffer state, and that was when Afghanistan lost the control of now NWFP and Balochestan in Pakistan and the.
In 1947 once again the Britain came to face a shamefull defeat in their politics and regional control and again they
implemented the Divide and Rule theory in order to never allow the Indian contenent be peacefull and they again made a KIND
of buffer state over which in the future both Afghanistan and India will fight, and that's what today we see, Afghanistan
asks for its land and India never truely accepted Pakistan a saperete country.
As far as the people of Pakistan is concerned, as I have mentioned what PAK stands for so mostly the people of Pakistan is of
Afghan origin and the Punjabis and Sindhis who are of western Indian or you could say of Indus civilization origin (pre-
Islamic times), before the division were mostly converted to Islam and that's why the overall population of Pakistan makes
the third largest Muslim population.
As mentioned before by you and other poster, that the wester Pakistan is influenced by the Afghan culture, language and
custom as they are of no different origin and ethnicity and once you are in Balochestan or NWFP you won't fell any difference
between there and Afghanistan.
Originally posted by nick
There are 2 large ethnic tribes in Afghanistan. Which also falls into NWFP and Balochistan, Abadalite, and Ghilzais or
Khalji. total population of two large tribes have said to occupy 70% of Afghanistan's Population.
The Ghilzais are mainly in the South from Sistan-Herat-Kandahar-Quetta-Paktika, they are the same tribe who went into Europe
fighting their way with Medes and Assyrians ie the Aryan tribe of Sakas. The Other Ethnic tribe is Abadalite, Which is much
larger than Ghilzais, and Abadalite are the same Hephadalites which was mentioned in english as Eastern Iranians. The Fact
that they also live isIranian borders of Khorasan, in reality they are Aryans, not Iranian, but its not to say there are no
Abadalite in Khorasan of Iran, mainly sunnis. There is one tribe of NWFP which doesn't fit well with both of these Tribes and
that's Apdradis, their root is not known some say they are mixed others say they were outsiders who came into afghan land,
they makup 20% of NWFP, and there are also other tribes in the area who speaks pashtu but are not Afghan by origin. |
Dear as far as your information about the two tribes is concerned I would like to add on some more in order to give more
information to Surmount.
The first tribe of whom you speak is of Ghilzai, Ghalji (localy known) or Khilji (the Indian version of Ghalji), they are
mainly the second large tribe of Pashtuns, having Iranized Turkic origin meaning they are mainly of Turkic origin. They came to prominence after Mirwais Khan Hotak revolted against the Persian reign in Kandahar and it was the Ghaljis who
established the Delhi Sultanet, they are known as the ghazi tribe meaning they were and are mostly among the fighters and
generals of the Pashtuns.
The second tribe the Abdalis or Duranis, came to prominence when Ahmad Shah Abdali (known localy as Ahmad Shah Baba) stood
against the Persian empire and established a new country named Afghanistan. He went on to conquering today's entire
Afghaistan, NWFP Balochestan Kashmir Punjab of today's Pakistan, Punjab Kashmir of today's India and the entire Khorasan
province of Iran.
The origin of Abdalis is the most controversial think to speak of, there are several conceptions where some relate them to
decent from Alexander the Great (Mostly Afridis, Sadozais and Khattaks are known to be decedent of Alexander the Great), some
relate them to the Aryan origin and the most controversial one is relating them or you could say the entire Pashtun ethnic to
the Israelites where some of the local Pashtun history text books say that as the Assyrian Empire defeated the Kingdom of
Israel, there were ten lost tribes amongst whom one is of today's Pashtuns, even some DNA test were carried out to confirmed
it and showed up no official result but locals mostly say that those tests attested the claims and showed that Pashtuns were
of Israel origin or Bani Israel as known localy.
Any way this sect of Pashtuns are the most educated and well ranked amongst the Pashtuns, up till August 2007 the true blood
decedent of Ahmad Shah Abdali was represented by Kind Zahir Shah (who was of Mohammadzai sub sect of Durrani). The current President of Afghanistan Mr. Hamid Karzai is also a Durrani pashtun of Popalzai sub sect.
Its not a Persian dialect. Persian is a Safivadi langauge is in fact itself a dialect of Dari. Dari was first not
Persian. |
That's totaly correct and is the mistake that most people do again and again. Dari has a deaper past than the Persian language, it was the language of Zoroastrians in the pre-Islamic greater Persian
empire. As the time passed on it faded out and persian faded in. Today's Afghanistan's and Tajikistan's Dari is different
than of that time's but is said that mostly is same to Dari of Zoroastrains.
The Only languages close to Persian is Hazaragi and the 25% Shias of Herat whom were converted by the Safivads and
controlled by the Safivads for some years. |
Well that is a controversial point, as Hazaragi is much connected to Mangolian languages, specially the Jaghuri Hazaragi is
said to be derived from Mangolian language.
And what about the people from Afghanistan? Who do they stem from or what do they consider themselves to be? |
Today's Afghnistan consist of Pashtuns (65-67%), Tajiks (10-15%), Hazaras (10%), Uzbaks (9%),rest are Balochs, Aimaq,
Turkmen, Nooristani, Qazalbash, Pashai and other minor ethnics like Arabs, Gujars and more.
|
Dear nick, I would like to present you with what I know (which is little compared to your knowledge) about Pakistan. The word PAK in Pakistan stands for Punjab Afghanistan Kashmir, and you know that uptill 1893 there was no line/border by the
name of Durand line, in order to save their intereset and save the shame of twice defeat, the Britain implemented the best
policy of their, which is of Divide and Rule. They put a treaty with the Amir of Afghanistan that in order to stop any further trouble or war between Afghanistan and
Britain India there shall be a remote independent buffer state where both countries agreed on giving some of their land to
this buffer state, and that was when Afghanistan lost the control of now NWFP and Balochestan in Pakistan and the.
In 1947 once again the Britain came to face a shamefull defeat in their politics and regional control and again they
implemented the Divide and Rule theory in order to never allow the Indian contenent be peacefull and they again made a KIND
of buffer state over which in the future both Afghanistan and India will fight, and that's what today we see, Afghanistan
asks for its land and India never truely accepted Pakistan a saperete country. |
Dear Gharanai very nicely said. I agree about their history and afghan sacrifice. Yes I am Aware of the Word Pakistan, and also the true meaning, Pakistan (A clean Land from Hindus) You have to understand there is a big hate between indo-Muslim Hindus of India. Being from the same family and same culture of almost everything same, but a seperate religion have made them enemies of eachother. British very well knew how to use their religion to seperate them.
asks for its land and India never truely accepted Pakistan a saperete country. |
Every Indian knows and recordnized Pakistan, they know exactly where the border is, their borders are set, unlike Afghan's border with Indo-Muslim nation of Pakistan. In fact there was time where India was so scared that Pakistan might get more land like the Gujrat case or southern borders of Sindh and India where large large number of Muslims live. Remember Islamic Brotherhood is stronger, Indian politicians may have whatever excuss like "Ohh Pakistani People are our brothers" Which does make sense to both people but really Indo-Muslims demanded for a seperate nation since 1921. So what's India's Excuss?
There are 2 large ethnic tribes in Afghanistan. Which also falls into NWFP and Balochistan, Abadalite, and Ghilzais or
Khalji. total population of two large tribes have said to occupy 70% of Afghanistan's Population.
The Ghilzais are mainly in the South from Sistan-Herat-Kandahar-Quetta-Paktika, they are the same tribe who went into Europe
fighting their way with Medes and Assyrians ie the Aryan tribe of Sakas. The Other Ethnic tribe is Abadalite, Which is much
larger than Ghilzais, and Abadalite are the same Hephadalites which was mentioned in english as Eastern Iranians. The Fact
that they also live isIranian borders of Khorasan, in reality they are Aryans, not Iranian, but its not to say there are no
Abadalite in Khorasan of Iran, mainly sunnis. There is one tribe of NWFP which doesn't fit well with both of these Tribes and
that's Apdradis, their root is not known some say they are mixed others say they were outsiders who came into afghan land,
they makup 20% of NWFP, and there are also other tribes in the area who speaks pashtu but are not Afghan by origin. |
Dear as far as your information about the two tribes is concerned I would like to add on some more in order to give more
information to Surmount.
The first tribe of whom you speak is of Ghilzai, Ghalji (localy known) or Khilji (the Indian version of Ghalji), they are
mainly the second large tribe of Pashtuns, having Iranized Turkic origin meaning they are mainly of Turkic origin.
They came to prominence after Mirwais Khan Hotak revolted against the Persian reign in Kandahar and it was the Ghaljis who
established the Delhi Sultanet, they are known as the ghazi tribe meaning they were and are mostly among the fighters and
generals of the Pashtuns.
The second tribe the Abdalis or Duranis, came to prominence when Ahmad Shah Abdali (known localy as Ahmad Shah Baba) stood
against the Persian empire and established a new country named Afghanistan. He went on to conquering today's entire
Afghaistan, NWFP Balochestan Kashmir Punjab of today's Pakistan, Punjab Kashmir of today's India and the entire Khorasan
province of Iran.
The origin of Abdalis is the most controversial think to speak of, there are several conceptions where some relate them to
decent from Alexander the Great (Mostly Afridis, Sadozais and Khattaks are known to be decedent of Alexander the Great), some
relate them to the Aryan origin and the most controversial one is relating them or you could say the entire Pashtun ethnic to
the Israelites where some of the local Pashtun history text books say that as the Assyrian Empire defeated the Kingdom of
Israel, there were ten lost tribes amongst whom one is of today's Pashtuns, even some DNA test were carried out to confirmed
it and showed up no official result but locals mostly say that those tests attested the claims and showed that Pashtuns were
of Israel origin or Bani Israel as known localy.
Any way this sect of Pashtuns are the most educated and well ranked amongst the Pashtuns, up till August 2007 the true blood
decedent of Ahmad Shah Abdali was represented by Kind Zahir Shah (who was of Mohammadzai sub sect of Durrani).
The current President of Afghanistan Mr. Hamid Karzai is also a Durrani pashtun of Popalzai sub sect. [/quote]
GHILZAI , a large and widespread Afghan tribe, who extend from Kalat-i-Ghilzai on the S. to the Kabul river on the N., and from the Gul Koh range on the W. to the Indian border on the E., in many places overflowing these boundaries . The theory of the origin of the Ghilzais traces them to the Turkish tribe of Kilji, once occupying districts bordering the upper course of the Syr Darya (Jaxartes), and affirms that they were brought into Afghanistan by the Turk Sabuktagin in the loth (from Lat. centuria, a division of a hundred men) century . However that may be, the Ghilzai clans now (O.Fr. rant or rent, mod. rang, generally connected with the O.E. and O.H.G. bring, a ring) rank collectively as second to none in strength of military and commercial enterprise . They are a fine, manly race of people, and it is from some of their most influential clans (Suliman Khel, Nasir Khel, Kharotis, &c.) that the main (from the Aryan root which appears in " may " and " might," and Lat. magnus, great) MAIN (Lat. Moenus) body of povindah merchants is derived. |
http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/GEO_GNU/GHILZAI.html
As you can see its only a theory, so please don't make mistakes, the western people have gotten all confussed this with Ghazali pashtuwan tribe, whom Ahmad Shah Baba brought with him from Iran.
This massive Ghalzai's ethnic tribe cannot be Turkics or Persians, these are all madeup stuff, from people who have never seen the society itself.
If we go by the Pan-Turkic Theory, than alot more can be Althiac, even Aryan invision of Turkic theory,
-The Inventors of culture, language and civilization were Turks
-Ancient Sumeria was Turkish
-The Saka Aryanic tribe of Sakastan (Today's south of Afghanistan) were Turks
-The Pakhtrians are Turks
-The Aryan Invasion of Indus river were Turks
-The Azaris are Turks, (No By language they are but they have Elamid blood and most of them speak Parsi.
-The culture of the ancient Greece and Anatolia is Turkish in origin.
-The Etruscans of pre-Roman Italy were Turks.
-Armenians are Turks.
-The indigenous Indian peoples of North America are Turks
-Kurds and their Mede ancestors are Turks
-The Aryanic tribe of Hephadalites were Turks (The Largest Pashtun Afghan ethnic Tribe of Abdalits a total of 17 million people?)
-The Ghalzai Tribe (Second largest Afghanistan's tribe and the first largest Afghan tribe of NWFP/India a total of 22 million people?.)
-Firdowsi was a Turk
-Julaludin Balkhi was Turk
-Ibn Sina was Turk
-Jami Was Turk
-Ghurids were Turks
-Hotaki was Turk
- Alans were Turk
-Turks are the Worlds Main Producers of World Class Persian Literature
-Judeo-Christianity and Islam have Turkish in origins
-The Northern Iranians were all Turks.
-The Parthian language was Turkish.
-Bosnians, Macedonians, Albanians, and Ukrainians are Turks.
AND MORE...and more and more and more,
LOL In fact, we would get to a point where we would just laugh, cause it would be same as bluffing. There are same claims for pan-Iranism, whom have managed to fool people, in fact very vew of them make sense the rest of them all are nothing but bluffing. Please look inside the box.
The Fact who are Turks today is the Siberians/Mongolians, is we go closer to east then its Kazaks, then Kyrguis, than Tajiks, then Uzbeks than Turks of Turkey, than inside Afghanistan it may only be Hazaras/Uzbeks/Tadjiks, that's as far as you can go. We can't generalize people. Afghan itself is a Race, and the Irano Afghan Race covers 75-85% of Afghanistan, 50-65% of Iran, and if we go further than we would reach as far as India/Pakistan/Turkey/Armenia.
Please do more research before taking something from others or using Wikipedia. ANd Next please you have something make sure its studied and hard work has been done. Wikipedia is not accepted and nor its theories or the childish articles that anyone can change. And remember Not everyone came from Central Asia. Man has been living in Afghanistan as same time as other places, even Aryan have been proven to have been living in Afghanistan and did not came from anywhere else in fact Aryans or Afghans moved into Central Asia, Iran, Europe (Sakas) and India.
So pleases don't ever assume Ghalzai's are Turkic, cause I have been to Central Asia, and I know how the people looks like, and I have also seen my people too. If you don't mind research more about the word "Turk" even Mongolians are Turk. Anyways that's all i have to say.
Ghaljis who
established the Delhi Sultanet, they are known as the ghazi tribe meaning they were and are mostly among the fighters and
generals of the Pashtuns. |
Yes it was the Afghan tribe of Ghalzai whom were the first to take over the power after Guri tribes of Ghur Province, whom hired slaves generals to rule the region of South Asia.
The second tribe the Abdalis or Duranis, came to prominence when Ahmad Shah Abdali (known localy as Ahmad Shah Baba) stood
against the Persian empire and established a new country named Afghanistan. He went on to conquering today's entire
Afghaistan, NWFP Balochestan Kashmir Punjab of today's Pakistan, Punjab Kashmir of today's India and the entire Khorasan
province of Iran. |
Please don't make confussion Durrani does not mean Abdalite, yes I agree 98% of what you said in here, but I just wanted to point out this was not the first time Abdalites ethnic tribe took power from outsiders (Persians) their history goes back to Enemies of Sussanians whom Europeans mentions as "Eastern Iranians" ie Pashtu speakers, whom byzantians wanted a friendship with, and whom were not like their other Enemy the Althaic Chinese "Hun Tribes". If you're an Afghan you should be able to read this,,,,,, these are names of those tribe, as you know one of the important part of Afghan being is that you must remember at least your 7th forefather if you can't remember all, We call it "Haft Pusth" 7 past x-Fathers. The Afghan history is still alive and this book goes ateast before Islam, and after Islam as you notice the names are changed to make it more Islamic.
[/QUOTE]
If this is not enough I can also bring Sanskirt's Reference of Ghalzai, but before that you answer my questions and ask these questions to your self,
If you consider them Turkic then they shell look Turkic ie Mongolian or Kazaki, or atleast Tadjik, right?
Since you belief in wiki theory of Pan-Turkists that them Ghalzai's being TUrkic ie came during ghaznivads and according to Wiki even Ghaznivads were Ghalzai. ."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghilzai ( But than Lodis are also Ghaizai's. Ask yourself where are the Lodis from LOL Right from Ghur, but wait didn't Ghurids fought out the Ghaznivads? Ohh wait how can so many Ghalzai babies come all at once to fight eachother? Remeber We are talking the whole population of the region. Here is another mistake why would Lodis take over from Ghalzais if they are from same tribe? My friend be very careful of what you're trying to say, as i said I have lived in Central for many years. I cannot be fooled by someone to say Ahamdzais the 3rd largest Ghalzai tribe are mongolids or turkic.
If you need anything else let me know,
Today's Afghnistan consist of Pashtuns (65-67%), Tajiks (10-15%), Hazaras (10%), Uzbaks (9%),rest are Balochs, Aimaq,
Turkmen, Nooristani, Qazalbash, Pashai and other minor ethnics like Arabs, Gujars and more. |
No afghanistan is 25% Farsiwans, 40-55% Pashtuwan, 9% Hazaras, 5% Tadjiks, and another 5% Uzbeks, Please don't make mistake with the word Tadjik. Tadjiks are turkic people of Farsi speakers of central Asia. or Persians of central Asia, because Persi is somewhat same as Farsi.
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