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Is it true we all come from the black African race

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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is it true we all come from the black African race
    Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 19:06
What is your source, Surmount?
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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 19:27
Originally posted by red clay

Originally posted by hugoestr

Originally posted by red clay

Also pushed aside are the Australian skeletons, dated to about 40,000 bce that have no mtdna connection with the rest of us. As smug as some of us can get, we are still missing major pieces of the puzzle.
You must talk more about this. I am not familiar with these fossils





Thanks for the link. It was a great article.

At the same time, I think that the title exaggerates the debate. Torne says that the first humans came out of Africa, so he is still an out of Africa scholar. The difference is a technical one on how the migration and evolution of humans happened.

From the article, it seems that what they call the out-of-Africa theory says that Homo Sapiens evolved in Africa, and then went out and replaced the other humanoids.

Thorne says that all of the other humanoid species that lived together with the Homo Sapiens were actually Homo Sapiens, and that further evolution happened out in different regions.

So this is more like an infighting within the Out-of-Africa scholars about how it happened.

I like Thorne's theory; let's see if it holds
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 22:21
I have heard about the Australian skeletons, I believe the guy lost any credibility by making unsubstantiated  claims. Australia still does hold to rigorous standards that are overridden elsewhere. Also the Australian Aboriginals, as the situation stands right now, is they will will take any ancient bones and destroy them. They say "ancestor relics" should not be handled. They are under instruction from American Indian lawyers in how to handle these things. Knowing something about the state of current affairs in the country involved helps in many of these cases. If you do make significant finds concerning the ethnic background of Australia the thing is to hide any evidence away until the situation changes.
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  Quote omshanti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2007 at 05:13
I have some questions. When did the first humans appear? And when did they start to leave Africa? I mean how much time was there between the birth of human species in Africa and their first migration out of Africa?

Edited by omshanti - 24-Aug-2007 at 05:17
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2007 at 10:49

Homo sappiens is not the only human that developed, so that's to be taking into account. Homo Nearthental, for instance, lived up to 20.000 years ago in Spain in a time when there were already homo sapiens not only in Europe but in the Americas!

Now, homo sapiens appeared circa 150.000 years ago. Men abandoned Africa 60.000 years ago and reached Australia 40.000 years ago. Aroud 30.000 they were in Europe and 20.000 years ago in the Americas.
 
The original group of modern humans were small bands of hunter gatherers living in Kenya and closely related to modern Khoisans.
 
You can see the whole thing in here:
 
 
Pinguin
 
 
 
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  Quote Rakasnumberone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2007 at 23:31
Originally posted by omshanti

I think you missunderstood me, I was asking whether every khoi-San person has all the racial features of the world present on him/her, or that different people within the Khoi-Sans show different racial features ?


He means that within the population you find some individuals who have Asiatic, or "mongolian" facial features, otheres who look "caucazoid", others who look "negroid' etc

They have a yellowish brown skin tone, which means that their descendants migrating into a hotter climate will get darker, or migrating to a colder, lighter. The hair is very short and extreemly kinky. As to whether or not they are Black, they are considerd so by the South African government and the various Europeans who encountered them, but not like the zulu for instance. They considered them a different type of black or another variation I should say.
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  Quote Rakasnumberone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2007 at 23:40
Originally posted by elenos

the deep copper of the Khoisan reminds me of the Kalahari Bushmen.


These are one and the same people. Bushman is just a slang name that was given to them by the European settlers. Their real name is the Khoisan and they do live predominantly in the Kalahari
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  Quote think Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2007 at 08:48
I dont buy the out of Africa theory because its racist to claim Caucasians/Asians etc etc evolved an devoloped while Blacks remained the same Wink

Africans evolved in their environment whilst other groups evolved in theirs.

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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2007 at 16:51

But black people didn't stay the same! They adapted too to their environment, through the process that huogestr describes. Look for example at the pygmies in the forests of Equatorial Africa: they are extremely short because they had to adapt to life in a dense forest. The Maasai by contrast are very tall and skinny being adapted to life on the savannah.

Two questions we have to establish before going forward: what are humans and what is black? It may seem obvious but it's not.

As far as humans are concerned, the consensus is that the first hominids appeared in Africa's great Rift Valley around 6-3.5 million years ago. The first hominid to leave Africa was Homo Erectus about 900,000 years ago. Here's were it gets more complicated: Homo Erectus started to evolve. Thus we have Homo Neanderthalensis in Europe and the Middle East who was well adapted to cold climates, and Homo Florensis on the island of Flores. Most researchers believe that modern humans (Homo Sapiens) appeared in Africa again (I heard South Africa), about 200,000 years ago, and spread throughout the world, displacing the other species. Some researchers however believe that from Homo Erectus, other species of humans have evolved, which mixed with the African Homo Sapiens, to give rise to certain populations. I believe that in particular the Chinese reseachers back this theory. So, did hominids originate in Africa? Most definitely. Did (all) humans originate in Africa? Probably, but not certainly.

Now, as far as the meaning of black, supposing that the Khoisan are indeed the earliest humans and that South Africa is the land where they first appeared (it's difficult to say based on their current geographical location, because they used to occupy a much larger landmass in the past), then are the Khoisan one and the same with black people? No. They are African, but they differ as much from a black person from Senegal or Nigeria or Somalia, as they differ from a Chinese. From the standpoint of white ignorant people (or black or chinese ignorant people for that matter), they are black simply because their skin is somewhat dark and they are African. But then again, they are about as dark as say a Phillipino, so is that a fair statement? South Africa is as the same latitude as a place like Buenos Aires in Argentina or Sydney in Australia; or in the Northern Hemisphere, as the same latitude as Texas, Palestine, Iran or Central China, so the whole idea of being "black" for the purpose of adapting to sun radiation doesn't hold much ground. Also, evolution and adaptation means a whole lot more than skin color and appearance. We have a lot of genes, regulating our metabolism, makeup of organs, skeletal system, immune system, etc. The differences between individuals of the same population are often greater than the differences with members of another population. For example, two individuals from Nigeria may be more different genetically from each other than one of these individuals and another individual from Sweden or China. Race is a myth based on a very shallow understanding of superficial differences, which ignores the rest of the similarities and differences. Appearance is like the tip of an iceberg, when it comes to genes.

To summarize, humans probably appeared in one spot and then evolved and diversified through a process of natural selection. Black Africans along with everyone else went through this process. Even the Khoisan probably evolved to some extent, though they may be closest in appearance to our ancestors having stayed put in the original homeland. No one people can claim being the original people, because it appears that we are all descended from a common population. There is no race, other than a very inacurate but quick convention of describing people.

What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

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  Quote Darius of Parsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2007 at 00:23
Originally posted by Penelope

One things for certain, there is absolutly no evidence that we DIDNT come from Africa.
 
I am positive that there must be some people who agree that we did not come from Africa and have came up with proof to defend their points.


Edited by Darius of Parsa - 20-Oct-2007 at 00:23
What is the officer problem?
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2007 at 00:41
The point is the hard core Out of African theorists are struggling to make it appear that all modern man evolved in Africa and came out at a ridiculously late date. So there is  OOA1, OOA2 and OOA3 with a million years, half a million years and hundred  thousand of differences. There is a pick your own favorite answer for whom they married while hotfooting around the world and so on and on. What proof is needed when these historical revisionists not only argue with others but argue among themselves.
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