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Divine Inconsistencies

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Mortaza View Drop Down
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Divine Inconsistencies
    Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 17:46
 
 
1 .     Tanrı'ya gre insan, abd:
       "Kul ile Tanrı'nın arasına girilmez."- .
2 .    tarih  Kle:
       "Kendisi kabilenin beyinin kullarından birinin kızıydı. Ve beyler yalnız kendi kullarını değil, kullarının evladını da satabilirlerdi."- H. E. Adıvar.
3 .    tarih  Karavaş.
 
 
 

kul hakkı
isim

    İnsanların birbirlerine geen emekleri, hakları.

God does not see human as slaves. Infact Allah totally respect human rights.
 
That is why God say, "Bana ne gnahla gelirsen gel ama kul hakkıyla gelme."
 
when It comes to slavery. God give "free will". If There is freewill we cannot talk about slavery.
 
Lets not produce everything from a word.
 
I am not abusing Anton knowledge, I am sure he have enough idea about free will.
 
We are not doing what god say, we are doing what we want.. Repeating some slogans wont help us..
 
 
 
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 17:48
Yeah, god doesn't lash or chain people, for obvious reasons, if that's what you mean. But it undeniably affects intellectual freedom of human beings.

Pardon me. how does God do this?
 
You are trying to protect unprotectable ideas..
 
why do you think god gives people "mind".
 
to think.
 
Now, tell me how god effected your intellectual freedom?
 
By the way, You dont even believe god. How can you accuse someone you dont believe..
 


Edited by Mortaza - 11-Aug-2007 at 17:53
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 17:52
Originally posted by Feanor

[QUOTE=Anton]
But it undeniably affects intellectual freedom of human beings.


Show me one example for illustration.
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 18:06
Originally posted by Mortaza

God does not see human as slaves.

If you can't see that first meaning evolved from the second, that's your problem.

Murtaza, dalga mi geciyorsun abi? Sestes sozcuk mu bunlar? Cok acik bir sekilde ilk anlam ikincisinden turemis iste.

Mortaza, are you joking? Are these 'sestes' words? Apparently the first meaning has evolved from the second one.

Originally posted by Mortaza

By the way, You dont even believe god. How can you accuse someone you dont believe..

God exists as a concept, otherwise we couldn't talk about it. But it's as much real as a flying pink unicorn.

Originally posted by Anton

Show me one example for illustration.

You are joking, right?

Edited by Feanor - 12-Aug-2007 at 00:13
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 18:19
 
God exists as a concept, otherwise we couldn't talk about it. But it's as much real as a flying pink unicorn.
You are talking as god personally effect you.
 
If you want to talk about untolerant religious people talk about them, not God.
 
Lets differentiate God, Religion, and people.
 
 
 


Edited by Mortaza - 11-Aug-2007 at 23:52
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 18:24
Originally posted by Mortaza

If you want to talk about untolerant religious people talk about them, not God.

From my point of view, god is merely a tool of those intolerant religious people.

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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 18:32

what about democracy? laicism? Ataturk? nationalism? socialism? capitalism? even liberalism?

They are also merely a tool of those intolerant people.

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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 18:43
Originally posted by Mortaza

what about democracy? laicism? Ataturk? nationalism? socialism? capitalism? even liberalism?

Just pretend I said something leftist about that.

Originally posted by Mortaza

They are also merelya tool of those intolerant people.

Perhaps, or perhaps not. Way off-topic either way.

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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 18:46
ok. But I hope now we are agree, God is innocent and some people abused his name?
 
Or God is guilty with interfering your ideas?
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 19:04
Originally posted by Feanor


You are joking, right?


Not at all.
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 19:07
Originally posted by Theodore Felix

But wouldnt that be there to negate the concept?

How? Using which method?

Originally posted by Theodore Felix

Generally, when there is no evidence in something that defies the basic laws of out understanding of the universe and evidence cannot be collected, people then dismiss it.

Right, they dismiss it, not disprove. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 19:12
Originally posted by Anton

Not at all.

In that case you may want take look at the history of this planet before the rise of secularism, which is a nontheistic concept.

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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 19:17
This says nothing to me. Behaviour of atheists in Communists Russia didn't differ much from behaviour of people you would like to point. They were not intellectually free anyway. You may find free people among both religious people and atheists.
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 19:24
Do you really think that injustice and oppression in USSR existed due to atheism?
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 19:53
No I am talking about relationship between the state (and regular people) and the church in USSR. 
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 21:34
Atheism is not a religion. It cannot destroy, or even limit intellectual freedom. The very same thing can be said about theism, deism, pantheism, pandeism, agnosticism, nontheism etc. as none of these is religion.

By the way, I don't want to discuss politics right now, but it's important to note that Bolsheviks didn't ban religions or anything related, initially.

Contrary to popular belief, Russian revolution may even symbolize a progress in terms of religious freedom. Back in imperial era, Orthodox Christianity was the state religion and I don't imagine religious minorities weren't oppressed.

Lenin, an atheist, said: 'Muslims of Russia... All you whose mosques and prayer houses have been destroyed, whose beliefs and customs have been trampled upon by the tsars and oppressors of Russia: your beliefs and practices, your national and cultural institutions are forever free and inviolate. Know that your rights, like those of all the peoples of Russia, are under the mighty protection of the revolution.'

After Stalin took over, dictatorial measures were taken and churches & mosques were turned into bureaus and warehouses, respectively.

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  Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 01:46
Lenin, an atheist, said: 'Muslims of Russia... All you whose mosques and prayer houses have been destroyed, whose beliefs and customs have been trampled upon by the tsars and oppressors of Russia: your beliefs and practices, your national and cultural institutions are forever free and inviolate. Know that your rights, like those of all the peoples of Russia, are under the mighty protection of the revolution.'


When was this statement made? Was it during the revolution period?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


Then god is just as real as dragons and unicorns. But what would you to a person who believes in the latter?

Edited by Theodore Felix - 12-Aug-2007 at 01:48
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 10:56
Originally posted by Theodore Felix

When was this statement made? Was it during the revolution period?

On 24 November 1917, according to Wikipedia.

Originally posted by Theodore Felix

Then god is just as real as dragons and unicorns.

It's less real than those, if you ask me.

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  Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 14:17
On 24 November 1917, according to Wikipedia.


Well then, that looks like a good way to rile up support in a time of need.
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 15:27
Originally posted by Theodore Felix

Well then, that looks like a good way to rile up support in a time of need.

I don't think so. That policy remained as it was even after the civil war. It was changed by Stalin.

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