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babyblue
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Topic: Why was Rome called Chin in Han dynasty? Posted: 12-Feb-2005 at 02:24 |
Originally posted by ChineseManchurian
you waatched cartoon so much. also in Chinese history book record that Han have fought with Roman legion in middle Asia and crush them by 5000 against 20000.
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not that i doubt our heroic Han warriors, but..20000 legions? that's like half of Rome
Edited by babyblue
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babyblue
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Posted: 12-Feb-2005 at 02:24 |
Originally posted by ChineseManchurian
you waatched cartoon so much. also in Chinese history book record that Han have fought with Roman legion in middle Asia and crush them by 5000 against 20000.
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not that i doubt our heroic Han warriors, but.. 20000 legions? that's like half of Rome...
Edited by babyblue
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babyblue
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Posted: 12-Feb-2005 at 02:27 |
Originally posted by chaeohk
thats impressive, can you show any source that says that and maybe more info
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likewise
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lars573
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Posted: 12-Feb-2005 at 10:42 |
Originally posted by ChineseManchurian
Mulan live in the period of Tang dynasty, which she lead an army defeat Turks, not Huns...
you waatched cartoon so much. also in Chinese history book record that Han have fought with Roman legion in middle Asia and crush them by 5000 against 20000.
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That battle was against the Parthians. They used captured Roman troops from the Legions of M. Licinius P.f. Crassus from the battle of Carrhae.
The battle of Carrhae (53 BC), where 20,000 out of 36,000 legionaires may have died, the greatest Parthian victory against Rome, was a very bad moment in Roman history and a very good moment in Parthian history. Even more intriguing, however, is how it may also represent a moment in Chinese history. There are Chinese records about a subsequent battle between the Chinese and the Parthians in Central Asia, where the Chinese describe apparent Roman Legionary tactics -- i.e. locking shields to make a wall. The Parthians may have been using captured Romans to fight where they could not simply desert and return to Rome. The Chinese, as it happened, captured a number of these soldiers themselves and returned to China with them. This, indeed, would have been an extraordinary fate in the 1st century BC, to have been a Roman legionnaire, captured by the Parthians, then captured by the Chinese, and then living out one's life in China. If this is what actually happened, it is shame not to have some memoires from the men themselves. Since Han China and Rome traded silk for gold by way of Parthia, which endeavored to conceal knowledge of each from each other, any occasions for common knowledge would be extraordinary. |
From http://www.friesian.com/iran.htm#parthian
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eaglecap
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Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 03:02 |
http://depts.washington.edu/uwch/silkroad/texts/texts.html
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Sharrukin
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Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 10:16 |
"The inhabitants of that country are tall and well-proportioned, somewhat like the Han [Chinese], whence they are called Ta-ts'in."
From the Hou-Han-Shu, chs. 86, 88 (written 5th Century C.E.), for 25 - 220 C.E.:
http://depts.washington.edu/uwch/silkroad/texts/romchin1.htm l
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warhead
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Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 15:20 |
"That battle was against the Parthians. They used captured Roman troops from the Legions of M. Licinius P.f. Crassus from the battle of Carrhae."
No, it was against the Western Xiong nu and the Kang Gu.
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warhead
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Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 15:21 |
"Mulan live in the period of Tang dynasty, which she lead an army defeat Turks, not Huns..."
I'm inclined to believe Mulan lived during the Northern Zhou dynasty and fought against the Tujue. Or the Northern Wei and fought against the Rouran.
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Guests
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Posted: 15-Mar-2005 at 13:30 |
I'm inclined to believe Mulan lived during the Northern Zhou dynasty and fought against the Tujue. Or the Northern Wei and fought against the Rouran.   ;   ;   ;
Right !
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Drunt Ba'adur
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Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 09:53 |
This is what i've found
Crassus's legions were no match for the Parthian archers,
nimble horsemen who could loose their arrows off even as they turned.
Of the 42,000 Romans who set out, 20,000 were killed and l0,000 were captured
in the battle of Carrhae, in modern Turkey; it was one of the most spectacular
losses of Roman military history. According to Pliny the Elder, the Roman
prisoners were used by the Parthians as guards on their eastern frontier
in what is today Turkmenistan. From there, Dubs conjectured, some escaped
and joined the Huns as mercenaries. In 36BC, Chinese troops on a punitive
venture defeated the Hun ruler Zhizhi in today's Uzbekistan. Among their
captives they found 145 Romans. Dubs says the Chinese kept the ex-legionaries
as frontier guards, installing them in a specially created town called
Liqian in what is now Gansu.
If only there were proof. Dubs's theory rests mainly
on tantalising hints found in ancient Chinese historiography, none of
which refers specifically to Romans. There is a reference to the use of
a "fish-scale formation" by soldiers in Zhizhi's army, which
Dubs said described the testudo formation of overlapping shields "made
only by Roman soldiers". And Zhizhi's town had a double wooden palisade
outside its wall - a type of fortification he said was often used by Romans
and not by the Huns. Then there is the name of the town, Liqian, which
may have been used at the time to refer to the Roman empire. In 9AD the
name of Liqian was changed for a few years to Jielu, which may mean "prisoners
captured in storming a city". In the sixth century Liqian ceased
to be used as a placename.
Dubs was not the only one to believe in the Roman connection.
Guan Yiquan, a Chinese scholar in Lanzhou, the capital of Gansu, also
became convinced that Liqian had links to Rome. From 1978 until his death
20 years later, he laboured on a huge 450,000-character tome on Liqian.
According to his son, Guan Heng, it was not until 1988 that he saw a copy
of Dubs's lecture, which happened to dovetail with his own views. Unfortunately,
as the younger Mr Guan admits, it too contains no clincher.
Chinese officials would probably not have cottoned on
to the tourist- pulling potential of the Roman story had it not been for
an Australian writer and adventurer, David Harris. Mr Harris, virtually
penniless and upset by the break-up of his marriage, decided to set out
for China in search of the town mentioned by Dubs. With the help of the
elder Mr Guan, he narrowed his search to the village of Zhelaizhai. His
experiences are described in his travel book, "Black Horse Odyssey".
Mr Harris's efforts drew attention from the media, as well as from the
authorities. Even the Communist Party's main mouthpiece, the People's
Daily, carried an approving article. But there were sceptics aplenty.
Liu Guanghua, a retired professor at Larizhou University, says the name
Liqian derives from the second and third syllables of the word for Alexandria,
the Egyptian city sometimes used by the Chinese as a term for the Roman
empire in general. Yet Alexandria was not conquered by the Romans until
30BC, and it was only after this date that the Chinese began to use the
name in this way. Some scholars also think Liqian was founded well before
the Romans were supposed to have settled there.
As for the somewhat foreign-looking faces of a few Yongchang
residents, it would hardly be surprising to find some mixed racial features
in the county, given that it straddles what was once a major trading route
and borders on Central Asia, whose peoples look quite different from the
Han Chinese. For a few among the people of one of China's poorest provinces,
there is perhaps romantic consolation in the thought that they share their
blood with Caesar. But the abandoned shell of a new luxury hotel and the
dark empty corridors of the main guest-house in Yongchang suggest the
romance is proving slow to take hold more widely. |
or that http://www.pip.com.au/~paceman/ROMANS%20IN%20CHINA.html
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Nick1986
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Posted: 19-May-2012 at 19:03 |
The "fish scale formation" was also the first thing that came to mind when i saw this topic. It was thought Roman legionaries were captured by the Persians and sold as slaves. They somehow managed to escape (or were freed) and hired themselves out as mercenaries to the Xiongnu
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 20-May-2012 at 19:36 |
Originally posted by Nick1986
The "fish scale formation" was also the first thing that came to mind when i saw this topic. It was thought Roman legionaries were captured by the Persians and sold as slaves. They somehow managed to escape (or were freed) and hired themselves out as mercenaries to the Xiongnu
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and
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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