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perikles
Consul
Joined: 28-Jul-2006
Location: Greece
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Posts: 373
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Topic: Military Duty in your Land ? Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 12:06 |
i ll join on May. I thought special forces for the reasons Xristar wrote but then i loose all the comunication with my work. So i try to join the IT department. Cleaning toilets for the first 6 months and then go to an office near athens.
For the greeks who are coming from abroad and wants to stay in Greece permanent they need to join the army for 3 months. It is not much.
Generally it is waste of time. Big waste... but it is obligatory.
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Brainstorm
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Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 15:33 |
Originally posted by xristar
That was the reason I enlisted to the special
forces. We'll see (how long it will be before I quit and I'm
transferred to the infantry, cleaning toillets ;))
*because of the lack of manpower, it is said (and it is very
probable it will happen) that since 2008 all males will do their
service when they're 18 (or 19? -well, something around this age before higher education) |
And who do u think will be cleaning the special forces' toilets?
Special cleaners or u?
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Styrbiorn
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Joined: 04-Aug-2004
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Posted: 25-Mar-2007 at 08:52 |
Nowadays very few has to do military service in Sweden, around 10% - it used to be 90%. Not many believe the Russians will come anymore, so the requirements have been reduced a lot. The service ranges from 8-15 months, I made my service a few years ago. I certainly don't regret it, but it wasn't the most interesting 8 months of my life.
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xristar
Chieftain
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Posted: 25-Mar-2007 at 16:58 |
And who do u think will be cleaning the special forces' toilets? Special cleaners or u? |
I'll be doing the cleaning, but I'll also know how to use my rifle. I heard this complaint from a friend of mine, that you never learn how to shoot (and fight in general, as there is much more in a battle than shooting), only how to maintain your rifle, and keep your uniform clean.
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Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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Athanasios
Colonel
Joined: 23-Jan-2007
Location: Greece
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Posted: 28-Mar-2007 at 19:17 |
I think that is particularly true but it depends on the army base were you are paying your duty. Anyway , armie's role is to produce disciplined men into our society ho know the basics . All the others are work of prof's. The main reason is not that we have lack of manpower but the postponements.They create big confusion. As i've heard , the graduates of polytechneio( mechanics etc.) were very useful for some duties ,related to their occupation, into the army. Are the prof. soldiers capable enough to accomplish those specific duties? I'd rather prefer to finish the army until my 19s than waiting until my 27s and stressing myself . Styrbiorn , your country has its own high - tech weaponry industry. That is very important for you, even more important from recruitment of young soldiers . You only have to train professionals on how to use them.
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Guests
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Posted: 29-Mar-2007 at 01:11 |
Well the advantages of conscription is that you have a large pool of trained manpower to tap into come wartime.
We have something called National Cadet Corps in pakistan. All college and High School students are ordered/ encourged to take it. It is not conscription as such, mainly basic training. Come wartime they will be called up as garrison troops.
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Brian J Checco
General
Eli Manning
Joined: 30-Jan-2007
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Posted: 30-Mar-2007 at 12:18 |
Nothing obligatory here in America, though there is a lot of respect
for our troops, and sort of a cult of 'hero' veneration is shown to
guys who have been deployed to active service in Combat Zones. I know
my buddies in the Marines can't walk into a bar without being offered
free rounds all night.
Guys who have been in the service very seldom get in trouble with the
law over misdemeanors (and they never get speeding tickets). All the
service types I know (firemen, cops, soldiers, sailors, EMTs) have
asort of shared-bond, and they help each other out, as well as party
together.
However, the reason such veneration and respect is afforded to the
troops is because a) they're some of, if not the, best soldiers in the
world, and they've earned it, and b) their terms of service are
incredibly long by most standards. Officer commissions (regardless of
branch) are 8 years. Enlistments are 6 years. That's a very substantial
chunk of one's life to give up in defense of their country and
countrymen, and people respect that alot, and appreciate it (if they
don't, well, some people are scummy).
I could not imagine why anyone would dodge or resist military
conscription. I mean, the country you live in provides you with
security, education, utilities, infrastructure, etc (everything you
need to live by our modern standards, essentially). In a lottery
system, if your numbers is picked, I see no reason why a person should
be so-self righteous as to refuse. I mean, you have almost a moral
obligation; after everything they provided you with, you can't show
your gratitude by giving up some 18 months (especially in a country
like Germany or the Netherlands; I mean honestly, it's not like you'll
ever have to go to war, fer chrissakes)? To me, that seems
extraordinarily selfish and implies an inflated feeling of
self-importance. I guess Edmund Burke was right: "The age of gallantry
and chivalry is dead, and the glory of Europe extinguished forever. [Reflections of the Revolution in France, 1792]"
Cheers.
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xristar
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Posted: 05-Apr-2007 at 04:02 |
First, I don't know how things in Netherlands work, but in Greece there's no lottery system. Every single man is obliged to serve in the armed forces (regardless if a good portion evades this).
Second, it's actually quite understandable why a european (by this I mean Belgian, Dutch, German etc) won't want to join the army. Because, you said it, these 18 months you'll be doing nothing constructive. There are no borders to protect or any irregulars to fight. They just have to waste 18 months of their lives.
Nonetheless, I also appreciate the military service, and I also think that people should show more esteem to it.
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Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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Aelfgifu
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Joined: 25-Jun-2006
Location: Netherlands
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Posted: 05-Apr-2007 at 05:00 |
We do not have a lottery system or anything. We just do not have a draft. Only professionals. It is advertised as a great learning opportunities for people just out of school. You can learn a profession while in payed service for about 4-5 years. Of course nowadays, it is pretty sure you will be send to Uruzgan, Afganistan.
I do not oppose the army as such, I would just not let myself be forced into it in peace time. Come back when we are under attack...
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Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
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xristar
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Posted: 10-Apr-2007 at 06:34 |
Come back when we are under attack... |
That would be too late. You need like 5-6 weeks to take the basic training and another couple of months of specialized training to become a soldier.
And a formation to 'exist' needs men. You can't expect a brigade to be formed from zero in a few hours. And to perform. The brigade needs to have some men (the 'core') during peace time that maintain the equipment, the camp etc, and they actually are IN PLACE for defence. In Greece the border with Turkey is like 900 kms from Athens. If you want to have troops on the borders you can't expect to take them from Athens in a few hours. In these few hours the enemy tanks will simply have overrun the defence lines and arrive to the first major cities. Of course the situation in Holland is different.
One reason I don't like proffesional armies is because the people, the nation, will lose contact with it. People will start feeling as if it is in fact a mercenary corp, a praetorian guard of the political authority. If the population has not been a soldier, you can't expect them to feel any connection to them. Defence is a matter of all the people and not of the generals and the politicians.
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Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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Scheich
Pretorian
Joined: 07-Jun-2006
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Posts: 183
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Posted: 10-Apr-2007 at 15:27 |
I'm 17 and from Austria. In december I have to go to the FLAK (Anti Airplane gun) brigade. We only have to go for a period of 6 moth to the army. Is it true that austria is not allowed to have artillery systems which have a range over 40 kilometres?
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Kerimoglu
Consul
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Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 12:30 |
is 18 month in Azerbaijan and no matter what u must serve. Of course for only men.
I have heard it is really bad in Israel
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History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow!
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Batu
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Joined: 31-Aug-2006
Location: Barad-dur
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Posted: 08-May-2007 at 10:51 |
we Turks had to serve in 21.for 15 months.coast guard to mountain
commando,its your luck where will you serve.I hope I would be a Tourism
Gendermarie in Marmaris.: everything is for the nation!!!
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A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )
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Giannis
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Joined: 25-May-2006
Location: Greece
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Posted: 08-May-2007 at 11:12 |
Originally posted by Batu
we Turks had to serve in 21.for 15 months.coast guard to mountain commando,its your luck where will you serve.I hope I would be a Tourism Gendermarie in Marmaris.: everything is for the nation!!!
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Oh boy!!! You are going to need more than luck for this one!!!
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Give me a place to stand and I will move the world.
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xristar
Chieftain
Joined: 05-Nov-2005
Location: Greece
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Posted: 10-May-2007 at 13:46 |
I think in turkey not all go to the army. At least officially Turkey uses like 350,000 of her 670,000 men that come of age annually.
Which is actually a good luxury, because that means that only the 'best' and the 'appropriate' serve. It keeps the level high.
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Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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Jonathan4290
Pretorian
Joined: 03-Mar-2008
Location: Canada
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Posts: 185
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Posted: 20-Mar-2008 at 03:39 |
Canada has no mandatory military service. In fact, military service is actually verrry difficult to even do. The average time from application to actually training is about NINE MONTHS and that's if you're not ruled out for some silly reason.
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