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Is there any deep cultural similarity beween turks
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shinai View Drop Down
Shogun
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Posts: 219 		  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is there any deep cultural similarity beween turks
    Posted: 03-Mar-2007 at 13:28
Ok, If we donot consider the factor of blood we need  consider other factors, Just to start I'l tak about some belives between iranain turks, Please other people help me if they see any similarity
 
1-"AL" means red , the legend says that there is a red hair woman hwo attaks to mothers and new born babes and kill them, so to defeat them you need to be protected by a knife , and Garlic I found this video from kazakistan, looks like the same idea.
 
2-"Adam cilt kurt" legend says some women are transforming to wolves and attak to the people, They have long nails, legend says shah abbas safavi ( let say a warrior) killed all of them.
 
3-"DEV" a horrible creature leaves at the desert and attac to the lonley passangers,and eat them.
4-"Azhdarha" big snakes who has fire in the mouth and looks like the european dragon, Azhdarha milk the sheeps and also make a noise like sheep.
5-Asking help from the sprit of a holey warrior , to give you power, it is very common.
6-tributing candels (mum) to the Mazar of the holey men.
7- Tiding strings to the holey trees.
8-killing animals and put their blood on the new cars, to keep the car safe
 9-belives that your dead gard ma and grand fathers are your protectors.
10-do not splash the water to the bone fire, first remeber the god name.
because killing the bonfire (ocak) is a sin.
These are widely belived beween Iranain turks , they may look funny but i say these are the roots to their identity.
 
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Posts: 2120 		  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 12:14
Your change of tide is greatly appreciated, but let me ask you what do you intend to do with that?
For instance 5. refering to holly warriors and 9. to grand parents is just so widely spread that it wouldn't prove much. Not mentioning 2. the warewolves.

I'm no specialist of ethnology or cultural studies but I'd say you'd better consider stuff like:
What is/was the position of the women in society?
Do they trade particularly with one another?
What is the power structure of the community?

The belief system you're refering to is interesting but once more not enough
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 13:38
Great post Shinai qardes.
 
1-"AL" means red , the legend says that there is a red hair woman hwo attaks to mothers and new born babes and kill them, so to defeat them you need to be protected by a knife , and Garlic I found this video from kazakistan, looks like the same idea.
 
This is a popular tradition among Turks.
 
The mother or baby-snatcher is conceived of as disturbing women and newborn babies during accouchement and sometimes even killing them, and may be referred to as AL, al anası, al kızı, al karası, koncoloz, goncoloz, "Cadi" and kara koncoloz.

New mothers resort to a number of practices to protect against the mother or baby-snatcher, who is believed to live in stables, haylofts, mills, deserted ruins, wells, water sources and places where women in accouchement and newborn babies are left alone. Some of these practices are;

- Hanging brooms, Koran, onion, garlic, and blue beads believed to protect against the evil eye in the room where the woman and newborn baby lie,
- Inserting a needle or packing needle under the pillow of the woman or newborn baby,
- Placing sharp tools such as daggers, sickles, knives etc. under the pillow,
In addition to this tradition, there are these two main one's to do with "birth".

- The forty-day threshold
- The forty-day precautions
 
- A woman may not go far from her house until 40 days after childbirth.

- She may not go out of her house at night.

- Koran, amulets, knives and black cumin are placed by the head of a baby for 40 days.

- Matches and brooms are placed in the room where a woman who has had a baby within the last 40 days sleeps.

- Such a woman is not left alone in the house at night.

- After the 4oth day, the woman visits her three neighbors first before going any distance away from her house.

- Women and their babies are not allowed to see each other for 40 days.

- Visitors to women within 40 days of childbirth give coins or money in order to protect baby.

- Cats and dogs are not allowed inside the room where there is a baby younger than 40 days; otherwise the skin of the baby turns red.

- If a baby younger than 40 days has to be left alone in the house, a knife, onion and garlic are put near him.

- A candle is lit at the head end of the bed of a woman who gave birth less than 40 days ago.

- Two such women exchange needles in order to bring the period to an end.
 
- When a woman visits a house within 40 days of giving birth, she pours out water with myrtle leaves before entering the house.
 
 
3-"DEV" a horrible creature leaves at the desert and attac to the lonley passangers,and eat them.
 
You can find this tradition across Turk societies.
 
 
4-"Azhdarha" big snakes who has fire in the mouth and looks like the european dragon, Azhdarha milk the sheeps and also make a noise like sheep.
 
Azhdarha appears in many Turk traditions.
 
 
5-Asking help from the sprit of a holey warrior , to give you power, it is very common.
 
Very popular tradition!!! it stems from anscestor worship, a Tengrist custom.
 
 
 
6-tributing candels (mum) to the Mazar of the holey men.
7- Tiding strings to the holey trees.
 
Another very popular tradition!
 
Especially trying cloth/fabric to tree's is a common sight! sometimes people write a message on the cloth, or make a wish before tying it.
 
 
Turkey
 
 
Kazakistan
 
8-killing animals and put their blood on the new cars, to keep the car safe
 
A popular tradition, also has variants, water can be poured on a leaving vehicle for good luck.
 
 
 
 
9-belives that your dead gard ma and grand fathers are your protectors.
 
Another well known tradition.
 
 
 
10-do not splash the water to the bone fire, first remeber the god name.
because killing the bonfire (ocak) is a sin.
 
Thumbs%20Up I'm impressed Shinai!
 
These are very old customs, this specific one can be found in the 1300 year old Kitab-i Dede Qorkud, Oghuzname and further back to ancient times beliefs.
 
 
Also to do with "Ocak" there are these
 
- Spitting on fire, cursing or throwing water and nails on it will bring bad luck.

- If sick animals jump over the fire, they may recover.

- Water is not used to die down the fire, it is covered with soil.

- Even if the fire went out long ago, it is not good to sleep near the ashes. People believe that the devil and genies romp in the ashes.

- Throwing water or urinating on the ashes are not considered good.

- To stop it raining, a trivet with a knife on the middle is put in the garden.
- It is a sin to sleep near a stove which has gone out.

- One cannot walk on or jump over ashes at night, since it is believed that the devil will comes.

- If the fire makes too much noise, it is a sign that there is gossip about the person who lit the fire.
 
 
Other traditions which come to mind are, importance of woman, they were warriors, leaders (Khantuns/Khatuns) and were respected for being wise.
 
"Education is a precept for all Muslims, women and men"

Inscription over the entrance to Ulug Bey Madrasah in Bukhara, built in 1420.

Maybe you know this tradition

- Kurshun dokme, Lead pouring, to ward of evil lead is boiled then poured into water which is held over the persons head and forms a weird shape.
 
Other's, like the "Yagmur Duasi", Rain prayer.
 
Or urinating outside on soil at night can allow jins to enter you, or you be paralyzed "Charpar".
 
In the past, Turks wouldn't be given names at birth, they would earn their names based upon what they did.
 
I'll write more later, like wedding traditions etc
 
 


Edited by Bulldog - 04-Mar-2007 at 14:04
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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shinai View Drop Down
Shogun
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Posts: 219 		  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 16:23
Thanks guys , for your answers. This kind of belives  is taught by mother to kids and paternal ancestrs are not involved so much. A smal group of immigrants can not distribute these belives so deeply. another intresting thing still is alive between urks is "Kiz kacritma", which even had happend to my own Grand ma, looks like a romantic way, let the lovers get married, ven under restrict Islamic laws
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