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A Quick Question

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A Quick Question
    Posted: 03-Jan-2005 at 21:07
Ok, my question is as follows:

I have always been fascinated with Chinese and Japanese history and culture, and just recentely(mostly throught the posts of you members ) I have found a love for Korean hsitory as well.

Now, my question, sorry about rambling on, is if you learn Chinese, which I am going to attempt to do, are there good Korean historical books or classics availiable in Chinese?

Thanks Again
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Gubook Janggoon View Drop Down
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2005 at 21:46
Hehe you're gonna love this.  All the Korean classics were origionally in Chinese so you shouldn't have much of a problem in finding most of them in that script.

Also Since you've taken a liking to Korean history this might interest you.

My Pet Project

I basically compiled a bunch of Wikipedia articles, added PIctures, and commentary.


Edited by Gubukjanggoon
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2005 at 22:17
Awesome, good work.

Also, though of subject, and though I have seen some in other posts, is there a good site where I could view Korean armor and weaponry(spear and sword era)

BTW, probably a dumb question, did Koreans use archers? If so how effective where they?

And finally, I live in South New Jersey(pretty boring, I know) and on my local channel there is a show on Korean history called "Age of Warriors" or "Mooinshidae". If ANY one might know where I could find VCD or DVD of this subtitled(it is subtitled on my TV), please inform.

Thanks again
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2005 at 22:31
Originally posted by Teuton

Awesome, good work.

Also, though of subject, and though I have seen some in other posts, is there a good site where I could view Korean armor and weaponry(spear and sword era)

BTW, probably a dumb question, did Koreans use archers? If so how effective where they?

And finally, I live in South New Jersey(pretty boring, I know) and on my local channel there is a show on Korean history called "Age of Warriors" or "Mooinshidae". If ANY one might know where I could find VCD or DVD of this subtitled(it is subtitled on my TV), please inform.

Thanks again


Thanks I really appreciate your compliment.

If you search around the forum you'll find "Ancient Korean Armies"  We basically did all the searching for you.  Otherwise just google.  It does wonders.

As for the bows.  If The Chinese are known for their exploits with the lance and the Japanese for their skill with the sword, Koreans are known for their mastery of the bow. 

Also I can't believe you're watching Mooinshidae, the worst show ever....I don't know where to find them but I would suggest trying your luck here.

http://us.yesasia.com/en/Index.aspx

Also I would like to reccomend some other dramas:  Damo, Wang Guhn, and the Immortal Admiral Yi Sunshin.
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  Quote pytheas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2005 at 12:51
Yeah, the Koreans were synonomous with the bow more so dare I say than the Welsh and their longbows....
Truth is a variant based upon perception. Ignorance is derived from a lack of insight into others' perspectives.
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2005 at 13:54

BTW, probably a dumb question, did Koreans use archers? If so how effective where they?

Answer to First question: Since the founder's era.  In fact, almost every Korean heroes had this supernatural archery skills

-Koguryo- Founder Ju Mong hunted with the bow since 8,

-General Yang Min Chun in Anshi fired a shot right at Tang Emperor's eye,

-Founder of Choson dynasty Yi Sung Gwe, while riding a horse, with a parthian move, shot right at the end tip of a Japanese Samurai leader's helmet, taking his helmet off, which was follwed by an arrow shot in his head (also shot 3 birds in air with one arrow in his youth, and in another instance distinguished left eye from right of another samurai chief and shot the one in right),

-Priest Kim Yoon Hu killed general Salitai the Mongolic general granted by Genghis Khan himself in a battle with the bow,

etc etc  

Koreans were called by China as Dong Yi ().  Literally meaning East Barbarian.  But the Barbarian() in the context originated from the two chinese characters, Big () and bow().  From this, we can tell Koreans were good archers from the start. 

Like Korea can be reflected as the asian Britons in this aspect.  While in Britain, they rounded up the best longbowmen in the island, Korean nations also sponsored yearly toruments across the peninsula to find the best archers.  In Shilla, they created an elite corp of archers called Yi-Goong(first korean nation to create an elite corp of Gak Goong archers).  They contributed a lot to the unification of Korea. 

Also, Archery was a popular sport in Korea before westernization, mainly played by nobles and armies (nowadays it has been replaced with golf - Adding a bit more fact, Golf and Archery is somewhat similar; a good shot depends on the sound upon impact; golf shot needs to sound cool, while archery shot need have the perfect "ping" sound). 

The effectiveness...they mainly relied upon Gak Goong (mentioned before), seen in this pic:

the bow he's holding is Gak Goong, and he's holding it in a proper position.  Compare it it a longbowmen and his holding position.

It's better than longbowmen in many perspective.  Shorter, wider, and easy to use.  (Though the ingredients were harder to find, and the bow itself, harder to make)

With the valid range in about 350m.  Maximum, according to professional korean archers and bow makers, are said to be 500m.  Added accuracy with thumb nail.  Also, Koreans used a special variety of arrows, depending on situation.   

Thumb Ring

Top to bottom:

Hyoshi- arrow that makes sound as it flies

Shinjun- message

Hwajun- firearrow

Bak du- probably hunting deer

Yu Yup jun- don't know

Koguryo arrow- most of them here are used in hunting

Pekjae arrow

Effectiveness:  Pretty effective.  It was used by Koguryo in its conquest and defense (victory in Anshi was made partly because of the bow).  It was used by Shilla to conquer cavarly based Koguryo and Bekjae.  It was also used to combat cavarly based Jurchens/Khitans/Mongols, and many battles were won (including Kweeju Ham Hung Jin) because of its superior range over their composite bows in horseback.  It was used in Hideyoshi's invasion, where 350m range had advantage over 50m range muskets in fort defense (Hengju, Jin Ju). 

Also, it was the bow that made the country ignorant about developing guns.  They thought bows would still be superior. 

Now, my question, sorry about rambling on, is if you learn Chinese, which I am going to attempt to do, are there good Korean historical books or classics availiable in Chinese?

Every Korean History book in its untranslated version are in traditional chinese.  But its hard to find them in the internet.  To name a few, Samguksagi(߲, history of korean three kingdom era), Goryosa(, history of Koryo dynasty), Nan Joong Il Ghi(, Yi Sun Shin's Diary about Imjin war).  If you like controversial history books, try this one: (Ӫͯ)

And finally, I live in South New Jersey(pretty boring, I know)

Lol...I heard NJ was the armpit of america, if you know what I mean  (look at USA's map and locate NJ)



Edited by demon
Grrr..
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  Quote chaeohk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2005 at 14:35
[/QUOTE]
Also I can't believe you're watching Mooinshidae, the worst show ever....I don't know where to find them but I would suggest trying your luck here.

http://us.yesasia.com/en/Index.aspx

Also I would like to reccomend some other dramas:  Damo, Wang Guhn, and the Immortal Admiral Yi Sunshin.
[/QUOTE]

Mooinshidae was cool until they switched Gimduhan to that old guy.....
DaeJangGum is also a good one.. DAMO is the best

Anyways... Koreans are still very good with bows now ,they win almost every competition, but back then they were even better
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2005 at 16:54
Ok, so the Koreans were really great archers, but what about their swords and spears. I read ont his forum that their spears were short and sharp, and they Chinese really disliked them. I also read that their swords were crap, why?

Also, can someone provide to me a good source of info on the Three Kingdoms era of Korean history? Or can you describe who you think the best Korean leader/ruler, general, and strategist(if there are any).

Also, is there a site where I can see more on Korean battle tatics and costume from civilians to Emperors.(I like to get a good feel of the era/culture before I study it)

Thanks again
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2005 at 16:56
Oh, I forgot, are there any Korean dramas or movies(preferably dramas) that deal with great historical battles?(Like 3k series for China?)

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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2005 at 18:29
Admiral Yi was also known for his archery Skillz. 

BTW Demon...there was a priest who offed a Mongol General?  Is this a Catholic priest...? 

BTW Teuton, you keep asking us about all these pictures.  Just browse through the Asian forum and you'll find nuff to keep you busy for awhile.


Edited by Gubukjanggoon
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2005 at 04:32

BTW Demon...there was a priest who offed a Mongol General?  Is this a Catholic priest...? 

It was on Koryo era, Salitai (Genghis khan HIMSELF ordered him to conquer korea, meaning tht Salitai in in fact an important figure) was ordered to invade Korea.  It was the second Mongol invasion.  In Cheo In Fortress, Buddhist prist Kim Yoon Hu shot Salitai himself(he's an important figure- he must have had hundreds of bodyguards surrounding him, yet he was shot) and killed him.  Reason why mongols withdrew in second invasion.

Ok, so the Koreans were really great archers, but what about their swords and spears. I read ont his forum that their spears were short and sharp, and they Chinese really disliked them. I also read that their swords were crap, why

Well, its because even if Koreans had good sword and sword tecniques(gum do) from start, Koreans were increasingly becoming defensive in most cases, and thus more reliant to the bow(it was true, because you can't fight with the sword as good as with the bow when you are dealing with horsemen from the north- with the bow, you have range advantage, but with the sword, you don't have any advantage).  The sword slowly  grew shorter as age went on, and it started to symbolize commander position and/or decoration more than fighting item.  (during Imjin war and after however, Koreans rehabilitized the need for longer swords for better melee combat, and thus the length grew back)

Korean spears were quite unique- a pole in the back, and a blade in the front.  You cound stab the ground, stab the person in front and pull it back, giving 3 functions.  Why, because korean spears were principally used by cavarly forces.  But as era passed, cavarly numbers fell down, and infantry units started to inherit these weapons in increasing amount. Because the weapon could be used on narrow grounds, it was useful in most landscapes(in sword you have to swing and stuff, which needs some space between swordmen- but with spears, you just thrust foward and backward, which allows row formations to be formed with much more effectiveness).  Again like sword, spears, due to the lack of their need(because koreans were adapting its weapons to fight normads on horsebacks- giving them the reason why chinese feared them), spears grew shorter.  But after imjin, interest in melee weapon including spear grew back, and their length once again started to regrow

Also, can someone provide to me a good source of info on the Three Kingdoms era of Korean history? Or can you describe who you think the best Korean leader/ruler, general, and strategist(if there are any).

Yes, I have it in a file.  IF you want, i can send it to your email.(its in chinese tho)

Best Korean general IMO: General Ul-Zee-Moon-Dok (surname is Ul-Zee).  He defeated like 1 million(may be a bit exaggerated; don't remember the exact figure) men from sui dynasty by building a dam over a river that is known to flood highly in rain season, and by destroying the dam when the Sui army crossed it- spliting the army in half.  Only like 2700 men returned alive to Sui. 



Edited by demon
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2005 at 17:41
General Ul-Zee-Moon-Dok


That's certinly an interesting way to spell it...first time I've seen it like that...

More common spellings I've seen are Ulchi Mundok or Eulji Mundeok...

I prefer Ulji Munduk....
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