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Sarmat
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Topic: Saxon and Scythian Posted: 16-Jan-2009 at 23:16 |
The word Saqsin has perfect Turkic etymlogical explanation meaning Saksin (lower i.e. lower Volga or Saqcin i.e. guardian). And it's not the name of the region, but just a name for a trade city at the lower Volga. Finally, there are no definite proofs that Sarai was located in the place of Saqsin,
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beorna
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Posted: 17-Jan-2009 at 00:31 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
Ok, thanks, but it doesn't change that historical fact. |
I did not want to change the facts. I just wanted to show you the facts. You wanted to write for sure: "...but it doesn't change my unhistorical belief". Isn't it?
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Posted: 21-Jan-2009 at 22:24 |
Didn't have time to read the whole thread, so I apologize if someone said this already.
Originally posted by Brainstorm
The only connection i could find ,would be the existence of Sarmatian mercenaries in Britain,during late Roman times. (its known that Sarmatians replaced Scythians in the same area) |
Yes, as I was about to post: Ironically, the Saxons may have fought Scythians, more or less, in that the probable prototype of the armored knight in the Arthurian age were the retired veterans, living at Bremetanacum (sp?) in Lancashire (to help defend it against Irish brigands), of the Sarmatian cataphracts stationed in Britain to back up the legion defending the Wall. These were 'Scythians' of north Persian linguistic stock who wore plate armor and had armored skirts for their horses in the heaviest regiments. As the only type of warrior capable of riding down the hardy but poorly armored Saxon foot, they would have made a natural mobile 'police force' in post-Roman Britain, moving quickly (under leadership of a high king?) to a threatened sector to combine with local militia in suppressing Saxon outbreaks. (What eventually brought the Britons down was plague, seemingly, in the second half of the 6th century.)
The most surprising similarities (or coincidence of course) ,are the use of dragon-similar in the artifacts of Saxons and the "flags" of Sarmatians, and the myth of Exculiber. Scythians (and probably sarm) ,used to build tombs ,placing on top long swords,stucked on the ground or between rocks . This is mentioned also by Herodotus,who calls them temples-tombs dedicated to Ares (god of War),as "he is the only God they worship). |
Yes, the 'sword in the stone' has a decidedly Sarmatian flavor. But I would guess the dragon standards would have to have been captured Sarmatian standards--characteristic dragon wind-sock useful to archery--or else similar ones adopted by their Keltic allies, with whom they no doubt became interbred.
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Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 17:01 |
Didn’t Herodotus mention that Thracians worshiped Ares as one of their gods? Wouldn’t it make Samarians to be the same as Thracians who were well known by Herodotus? Thracians were a definite ethnicity. They left touchable traces behind, whereas Samarians are mentioned by scribes but left no place names no language behind and can not be assigned to a specific region with any certainly. It can be, the same people are talked about and all different names are attached to them. Having the same pantheon of gods doesn’t necessary tie them together? Greeks worshipped Ares too and were a separate nation. Besides, the same Herodotus wrote that Thracians are a populous people known by different names in different parts of the world.
Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 26-Jan-2009 at 17:02
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Posted: 30-Jan-2009 at 19:40 |
It is interesting that Jacob Grimm, in his Teutonic Mythology, suggested the name Mars may have come from the expression 'in dem Aresburg' (hope I spelt it right).
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Boreasi
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Posted: 06-Feb-2009 at 17:27 |
Originally posted by Boyo
Didn’t Herodotus mention that Thracians worshiped Ares as one of their gods? Wouldn’t it make Samarians to be the same as Thracians who were well known by Herodotus? Thracians were a definite ethnicity. They left touchable traces behind, whereas Samarians are mentioned by scribes but left no place names no language behind and can not be assigned to a specific region with any certainly. It can be, the same people are talked about and all different names are attached to them. Having the same pantheon of gods doesn’t necessary tie them together? Greeks worshipped Ares too and were a separate nation. Besides, the same Herodotus wrote that Thracians are a populous people known by different names in different parts of the world. |
Interesting. But wasn't the Sarmatians the people who inhabitted Sarmatia, between the Black Sea and the Baltic inland...?!
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Sarmat
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Posted: 06-Feb-2009 at 17:40 |
Originally posted by Boyo
Didn’t Herodotus mention that Thracians worshiped Ares as one of their gods? Wouldn’t it make Samarians to be the same as Thracians who were well known by Herodotus? Thracians were a definite ethnicity. They left touchable traces behind, whereas Samarians are mentioned by scribes but left no place names no language behind and can not be assigned to a specific region with any certainly. It can be, the same people are talked about and all different names are attached to them. Having the same pantheon of gods doesn’t necessary tie them together? Greeks worshipped Ares too and were a separate nation. Besides, the same Herodotus wrote that Thracians are a populous people known by different names in different parts of the world. |
Sarmatians did left place names behind. And even the modern variation of their language is believed to still exist right now since it is believed that Ossetians are the descendants of Sarmatians.
Finally, Herodotus himself clearly differeintiates between Sarmatians and Thracians and don't call them the same people.
Sarmatians of course left archeological evidence about themselves and we know where they lived.
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opuslola
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Posted: 26-Oct-2009 at 20:31 |
Whilst I did not read all of the post above or below where I now move into, I would suggest that the following words have some good meaning'
"When Tacitus wrote his Germania, (c. AD 96), he did not know about any "Saxons". Instead he knew about a group of tribes where the Saxons eventually were known to have been located. When the geographer Ptolemy (c. AD 150) wrote about Germany, that group of tribes no longer existed, but instead, their names were replaced by the name "Saxons". The conjecture, is that sometime between the time of Tacitus and Ptolemy, those tribes mentioned by Tacitus formed a league, much like the later Franks and Alemanni, which was named the Saxons."
Hey guys and gals! Just how could two of the prime experts on the subject of "Ancient History", become suspended between the two views?"
Regards,
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opuslola
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Posted: 09-Feb-2010 at 19:45 |
Can the word "Frank" be considered to mean "free?", or "open?" Just take your pick! Could it be related to "Freisland?" Which might well mean "Land of the Free?"
Could the "Phranking / Franking privilege" be related?
Take your pick; http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=1&oq=franking&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBR_enUS315US315&q=franking+privilege+definition
Regards,
Edited by opuslola - 20-Feb-2010 at 18:17
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Shield-of-Dardania
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Posted: 24-May-2010 at 04:30 |
Originally posted by Vedam
I've also heard theories that the Scythians who were called in India the Sakas are the same as the tribe that Buddha belonded to the Sakyas. Even though Buddha was born on the India-nepal boarder and the Scythians an Iranic group did not enter India until 500 years later, and that was from the North-west.
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Shaka and their kin tribe, the Kambhoja, were the Himalayan branches of Scythian and corresponding kin tribe Cymmerian.
Prince Siddharta Gautama (Buddha) lived in the 500s BC. Shaka and Kambhoja have been around in Pamir-Badakhshan region and nearby since, what, the Kurukshetra War mentioned in the Mahabhrata, which many guys guess occurred around the 1400s BC.
Shaka and Kambhoja, as well as Yavana (the Indian name for Greek, derived from Persian 'Yawna' for 'Ionian') and Tushara/Tukhara (Turk? or Thracian? or Tocharian?) were recorded in the Mahabhrata as among the foreign mercenary combatants in the Kurukshetra War.
Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 24-May-2010 at 04:32
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opuslola
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Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 20:44 |
I just happend to notice that my last post was "ignored!"
If so, why? Perhaps it is because Franks and Saxons, are not now considered to be related?
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opuslola
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Posted: 16-Jun-2010 at 17:50 |
Were any of you afraid I might mention Thrace?
If one looks at history without the prism of our currently accepted time-line, then the Ottomas were also from Thrace!
There capitol, before the conquest of Constantinople was in Adrian-ople! And, according to numerous maps, this entire area was once considered to be Thrace!
So, just where are we told the Sarmatians lived?
And, just how would the Sythians become involved within the same area?
Was it really by conquest? Or was it via "employment?"
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