nobody interest at civil war of China from 1945-1949?

Anyone interested in that conflict should take a deep look into the Xu-Bang Battle, also know as the Huai-Hai battle in China.  It is the single battle that defined the outcome of this conflict.  The inflexible command of the KMT, and the CCP's ability to get generals already in KMT military sturcture to switch sides or work as under cover is what steered the battle. 

There are a few battle tactics of the CCP that can also be contributed to winning this battle.  First is the Surround and Attack Rescue method.  The CCP surrounded many important KMT troops that were stuck in places due to the inflexibility of the KMT, then as KMT sends more troops to the rescue, the CCP would them surround those troops.  Since the whole mind set of the KMT army was to hold on to certain points, that makes it realy easy for the CCP to cut them off.

KMT at that point had to relay every command back to Nanjing for Chiang to approve.  Sound familiar? yeah, that's what Hittler did.

That fact that the KMT had army fanned out alone the railroads leading to XuZhou city because they thought the railroad is important just killed them.  Railroads were quickly cut off, and troops lost their means of supply.

I always thought they should have kept their troops south of the Long River.

Talking about Grandpas, mine was working in the Colonial palace for civil engineering tasks during WW2, being insulted as the Manchu slave by the Japanese, and getting shot at by the American fighters.  Then the KMT took over, first he worked for them and do the same civil engineering tasks.  Then they fired him because all jobs were reserved for the "real chinese people".  Finally he was put in to jail, because he was educated by the Japanese. 

Edited by hansioux

Originally posted by ChineseManchurian actually I think Chinese civil war should be start form 1945, because the sodiers of the government already attacked Communist part in He Nan.

 

Dear ChineseManchurian!

Why do you even care about the civil war, if your Manchus already gone since 1911? Are there any Manchus, or is it your forumite-name?

Is there any Manchu language? Why talk about Civil War, if you don't even know about your Manchu or Manchurian History?

Nationalist army was a joke, equippted with U.S. weapon and training, outnumbering the communist by some 8 to 1 even at this date was beaten by a bunch of "Tu Ba Lu" who barely have any updated assault rifles. This might be one of the most outmatched defeat in the 20th century. And despite their defeat, their excuse was "Its not our incompetance, its that the communist army is too sly"

A.Yes KMT troops started much larger, but out of those 8:1 ratio at least 7 if not 7.5 of them were locked to Cities that the government have the obligation to protect. The KMT troops that were acturally availible to move around on a consistent basis was not nearly as close as it's total number, same can't be said for the CCP. whom had no real obligation to defend anywhere (hell they pulled outta their head quoter in Yian An without a fight)

B.Not all KMT troops (or at least KMT associated troops) were armed with American stuff, it was mostly limited to the Huang Pu armies, the Central armies, the armies associated with past warlords had weapon that varied greatly in termes of quality.

 

The KMT had a great deal of problems inhereted from their long and shaky road into power after WW2, first they have a nation that's in shambles in all respect, economically broke, socially troubled by changing times and numerous wars, and poltically unstable due to all the different factions.

The same reflected on to their army, which was consisted of not just party troops (unlike the CCP) but also of past warlord troops, whom still holds some sway both poltically and militarily.

Meanwhile the CCP's ideal was perfect for such a troubled nation, and they were able to grab the most important peice of land from the Japanese pull out, Machuria, which was not only very fertile, but also had close access to their Communist allies (NK and Russia) and most importantly was loaded with aresenals left behind by the Japanese and former Machurian State armies.

The KMT's attempt to take Machuria was probably the best case of why they lost the war, when they first entered Machuria in pursuit of the CCP troops ahead of them, they were unstoppable, the chased the CCP all the way from North of BeiJing to the shores of Harbin in several months. but along the way with each major city they take, they must leave behind part of their force to defend, so by the time they reached Harbin, they were logistically impossible to push forward.

With the nature of the KMT army forced to stay at cities, the CCP didn't have too much trouble surronding them one by one and taking them out, and can lay traps for their reinforcement as well. espically with each KMT defeat, the CCP gains their weapons and a lot of their surrendered men.

The CCP comming out of Machuria were armed with a vast array of American, German, Russian, Japanese and god knows what kind of weapons. they were much much better armed than their counter parts elsewhere, and minus the airplanes, they were almost on par with KMT forces as well.

Originally posted by warhead The PLA was sort of like the steppe army of the 20th century, they rely on mobility and little heavy logistic to fight, against the Nationalist who was better equippted than them, they would just retreat, and lure the nationalist into mountainous terrain where their artillery have little affect, then they would surround that troop with superior number and wipe it out, when other nationalist army come to the rescue, the PLA would long be gone due to their superb speed. And they would simply take enemy equippment and use them. Another instance is during teh war against the Japanese, the PLa would withdraw into a freezing mountainous terrain, the Japanese detachment would follow, but eventually they got lost within this maze of winter, while the PLA knows it perfectly well, the Japanese are worried but one of their followers knew the terrain so decide to lead the Japanese out. At this moment the PLA threw a hand grenade and instantly killed that man. The Japanese turned around to fire but the PLA was long gone, eventually they were frozen to death. This is similar to the mongol battles against the Jin, even though Jin had superior equippment and size, they lack the mobility to fight the mongol army and thus collapsed, yet the difference between the PLA equippment and that of the Nationalist is far more drastic like that of a primitive war band vs. that of modern armament, since many of the PLA actually still used cold weapon, I have a friend whose grandfather use a big broad sword when fighting against the Japanese.

Technically, the Chinese Civil War had been ongoing since the 1920s when Chang turned on the Communists. It was interrupted by Japanese invasion, but resumed as soon as WWII was over

yes, i know,i am Chinese girl

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 30-Oct-2012 at 03:58

I have come to the conclusion that even had Chiang and KMT wiped out the communists after the "Long March", there would be other commies to replace Mao, Zhou Enlai, Zhu De, etc.  At the end of WWII, commies were virtually planted in all Asian nations.  I mean just look at the pace of uprisings in Korea and Vietnam immediately after the Japanese surrendered?  Russia would of course be funding and supporting these movements and infiltrations.  The commies were bound to take China (it was fate).  They would have undermined the government through constant terrorist attacks from rural and interior regions and then finally swallow the whole.