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Korean war
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Dampier View Drop Down
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Posts: 749 		  Quote Dampier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Korean war
    Posted: 17-May-2006 at 08:49
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Dampier

 
[QUOTE]
 
As for naturally belligerent.....hmm, Chamberlein and appeasement.Wink 
 
 
Very much resented by the average Briton, except for those who saw it as a way to get more time for re-arming. I meant the British people, not British politicians or the chattering classes.
 
In general the British had been spoiling for a fight with the Red Chinese ever since the Yangtse Incident surrounding the sloop Amethyst.
 
 
 
Britian generally avoids fights, even amongst the public. Sure war is popular when it happens (as in any country) with all the nationalism and the like but not unusually bellicose. After all Britian has been seperated from Europe and maintained a form of isolationism. I've never noticed other Britis to be more than unusually offensive or agressive.
As for fighting the Chinese, well not that I know. Compared to American, Japanese or S. Korean attitudes I really wouldnt say that. Anyway Yangtse was the fault of the Chinese...Wink
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shayan View Drop Down
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Posts: 106 		  Quote shayan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 14:51
thanks for your help guys, i still didnt really understand the cartoon but i will eventually i hopeSleepy
Iran parast
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 06:16
I'm still having trouble formatting, since the changeover.
 
Originally posted by Dampier

Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Dampier

 
 
As for naturally belligerent.....hmm, Chamberlein and appeasement.Wink 
 
 
Very much resented by the average Briton, except for those who saw it as a way to get more time for re-arming. I meant the British people, not British politicians or the chattering classes.
 
In general the British had been spoiling for a fight with the Red Chinese ever since the Yangtse Incident surrounding the sloop Amethyst.
 
 
 
Britian generally avoids fights, even amongst the public.
 
 
Really? Try telling that to football supporters anywhere in Europe.
 
When I said they were spoiling for a fight, I didn't mean they were stupid enough to take on the Chinese single-handed. But the Korean War gave a great opportunity.
 
Sure war is popular when it happens (as in any country) with all the nationalism and the like but not unusually bellicose. After all Britian has been seperated from Europe and maintained a form of isolationism.
 
 
Only since it failed in the 100 Years War. Then it got preoccupied with internal wars in the fifteenth century. Then, when the richer pickings were outside Europe, came the Drakes and Hawkins's of Elizabeth's times, who weren't exactly peace-loving. Then more internal wars, then the military conquests of places like India and Canada, then the long imperial expansion of the nineteenth century with wars all over the place from China via Afghanistan to South Africa and places in between.
 
All of them enthusiastically supported at home.
 
More recently - how about the reaction to the Argentine invasion?
 
I've never noticed other Britis to be more than unusually offensive or agressive.
You live a sheltered life Smile
 
As for fighting the Chinese, well not that I know. Compared to American, Japanese or S. Korean attitudes I really wouldnt say that. Anyway Yangtse was the fault of the Chinese...Wink
 
Of course it was the fault of the Chinese. That's why it was resented. It almost directly led to the disappearance of Communist MPs from Parliament, and was a major reason for the support for the Korean War.
 
Who do you think sings:
 
"Wider still and wider
Shall thy bounds be set
God, who made thee mighty
Make thee mightier yet..."

or

"Some talk of Alexander,
And some of Hercules
Of Hector and Lysander,
And such great names as these.
But of all the world's great heroes,
There's none that can compare
With a tow, row, row, row, row, row,
To the British Grenadier."
 
After all
When Britain first, at heaven's command,
Arose from out the azure main,
Arose, arose, arose from out the azure main,
This was the charter, the charter of the land,
And guardian Angels sung this strain:
 
Rule Britannia!

 
 
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pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
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Posts: 4221 		  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 08:49
Rule, Britania!  Britania rules the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
 
Here's to the navy.  Britania rules the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
 
(and Britons fight when they need to)
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Dampier View Drop Down
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Posts: 749 		  Quote Dampier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 14:45
Rule Britannia!
Nice songs mate (ahh, bring back memories...) but you'd be hard pressed to find a culture without militaristic songs. In fact I think you misinterpret my point, I'm not saying Britons arent agressive (because thats nonsense) just that they are not unusually agressive. For all your examples and just thinking of Europe I can name France, Germany (kinda), Spain, Holland...
As for football fans, I read an article not two days ago about how Polish fans were even meaner and wanted to take Britains 'King of the Yobs' title. That said on the opposite side a British bring and buy sale is hardly all that dangerous (unless the old ladies are knitting, those needles are sharp!Wink).
Any evidence Briton was spoiling for Korea though? It was supported because of obvious reasons (its a sick country that doesnt support their 'boys' and the Chinese regime was not the nicest.) but I dont think there was intentional provocation or anything. And as the Korean war proved taking on all of China is a bit much, even for the UN, so not much of a good oppurtunity.
Reaction to Argentinian invasion was for obvious reasons, the Falklanders said they wanted to remain British, Argentinians ignore them and invade what is seen as British land.
Not that much of a sheltered life mate, I just dont find Brits to be more violent than other foreigners I know.
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2006 at 06:02
 
Originally posted by Dampier

Rule Britannia!
 For all your examples and just thinking of Europe I can name France, Germany (kinda), Spain, Holland...
 
France and Spain have also been bellicose nations. I don't think that you can find much evidence that the Netherlands have.
 
And analying the case of Germany helps make my point. 'Germany' is a conglomeration. Split it between Prussia and Austria on the one side and the Rhineland and the west on the other and you get one bellicose group and one generally pacifist one - more fought over than fighting.
 
Now Prussia and Austria are like England, France and Spain in that they are marches - boundary areas that attract the militant and expansionary rather than the pacific, who tend to stay at home.
 
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Posts: 4221 		  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2006 at 09:36
I would consider most of Western civilization to be pretty bellicose.  The Dutch certainly were able to hold their own against Spain and England and France, and also to project power far from Europe in the 17th c.
 
Everyone looks at Sweden as a peaceful neutral, but for 100 years she was able to mobilize and project military power.  Pretty amazing for a sparsely peopled, poor country.
 
From 1500 to 1900 the West was unstoppable in moving outward to secure territory and resources.  The results were not only due to the development of superior military technology, but to the willingness to use it.
 
 
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Dampier View Drop Down
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Posts: 749 		  Quote Dampier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2006 at 10:28
But England contains different elements too. A Cornishman is generally very mellow, Scots can be more violent than others, Londoners vary but anyone who's walked through Hounslow at 3am will testify to more than a littlwe violence. The Welsh are generally independant but non violent etc. Asfor militants and pacific, well the middle classes are usually the most pacific and Britian lread the world in middles classes for severl years. If you compare say the revolutions in 1848 everywhere was affected apart from Britian, Belgium and Russia. Britain keeps its wars away from home as we are islanders, the Continent has seen far more wars and the like.
 
The Netherlanders are not unduly violent, I mentioned them only as a respose to your list of British colonial undertakings as being a much earlier maritime power.
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Lord Ranulf View Drop Down
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Posts: 309 		  Quote Lord Ranulf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2006 at 13:39
Originally posted by shayan

do any of you have good political cartoons of the war?
 
see the following as both these guys were in Korea too....Big smile
 


Edited by Lord Ranulf - 21-May-2006 at 13:41
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