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Your Favourite Mughal Emperor

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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Your Favourite Mughal Emperor
    Posted: 29-Apr-2006 at 03:35
The most important question in the history of the subcontinent always seems to be "Who is your favourite Mughal Emperor?". The sterotypical answer for Hindus is Akbar, while the sterotypical answer for muslims is Aurangzeb.
Mine is Shah Jehan. He ruled at the height of the Empire, a time of power in the subcontinent that has not been achieved since.
Who is yours?


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Anujkhamar View Drop Down
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  Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2006 at 05:47
Well hounestly i have no foundness for the Mughals. So my answer is based on architecture and will have to also be Shah Jahan, for commisioning the Taj Mahal (up for debate, but either way.....), the Red Fort, and the Jama Masjid:







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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2006 at 05:53
shah jahan whas charismatic one, ill "vote" for him.
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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2006 at 12:28
I would say Akbar for his fair-mindedness, intellectual prowess and general leadership capabilities. Aurangzeb, while a capable military commander, did not adequately understand the needs of empire and greatly contributed to the decline of the Mughals through his ill-advised and costly campaigns. I would also nominate Babur, as a romantic, heoric figure.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2006 at 15:16
Babur and Shah Jahan.
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  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2006 at 15:58

I would also vote for Zahir ud-Din Muhammad Babur, as he was the man who built the Mughal Empire and the person who was not only a emperor but also  a poet, artist and decision maker.



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  Quote Rajput Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2006 at 17:10

I would just like to present some quotes from Indian texts about Babur, who was often described as 'The angel of Death' and his defeating of the Pathan armies of Lodhi.

"Babar leading a wedding-array of sin hath descended from Kabul and
demandeth by force the bride. Decency and righteousness have vanished, and falsehood struts abroad. Gone are the days of Qazis and Brahmans, Satan now conducts the nuptials."

"Thousands of Pirs tried to stop Mir Babur (by means of magic) when they heard of his invasion. But no mughal was blinded and none of the spells had any effect."

"the mughals and pathans fought each other wielding swords in the battlefield. The mughals aimed and fired their guns, and the pathans attacked with their elephants. The rule of Babur has been established and no Pathan prince ate his food."

"the robes of some women are torn from head to foot. The heads which were adorned with tresses and filled with varmillion, are shaven and throats are chocked with dust....The ropes are put around their necks and their strings of pearls are broken. The order was given to the soldiers, who having dishonoured them, took them away. In helpless and despair muslim women invoke God and similar is the case with hindu women."

 



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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2006 at 20:57
Originally posted by Decebal

Aurangzeb, while a capable military commander, did not adequately understand the needs of empire and greatly contributed to the decline of the Mughals through his ill-advised and costly campaigns.

I agree with this, this is why I vote for Shah Jehan over Aurangzeb. While Aurangzeb was a still a great ruler, I consider him the beginning of the end of the Mughal Empire. By being overtly religous he alienated many Hindus which probably contributed  to the rebellions he was continuously supressing.
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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2006 at 10:13

 

Babur, for his beautiful writings.

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2006 at 14:19

Shah Jahan. And who the hell said he did not commission the Taj Mahal. More Hinduvata bull?

During SJ's timeI think the sub continent was 2/3rds of the world total GDP.

Its too easy to balme religion for Auregzebs failures. Problem was the poliferation of firearms and while before small garrisons staioned all over had been able to keep order now every rebllion required the full resources of the empire.

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  Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2006 at 15:22
Why is it that the first second anyone claims the hindus ever did anything in this forum, one of our Pakistani community straight away either uses the words "hindutva" or "extremist".

Infact, im sure if you do a search on the forum for the word hindu you will find the word extremist following it.

I wasn't saying that the Taj Mahal wasn't built then, im just stating that there is an ongoing debate about it.


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  Quote Rajput Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2006 at 18:04

The Taj Mahal was built over a Shiv Temple (Tejo Mahalya), even to this day nobody is allowed access to the lower levels of the site. The entire complex comprises of 400 to 500 rooms, why would someone have such rooms be built in a Tomb??  The marble that Shah Jehan used for grafting Quranic lettering on the building is of a pale white shade while the rest of the Taj is built of a marble with rich yellow tint. This disparity is proof of the Quranic extracts being a superimposition.  The interior of the dome rising over Mumtaz's centotaph has gold depictions of the sun and snakes (cobras), why would muslims have thes symbols in a Tomb which is in the vicinity of a mosque!? 

The crescent moon on the roof of the builidng with a lotus in its center, both are used by shiva worshippers.

 

 



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  Quote Darkness1089 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2006 at 20:01
I actually hate all of the Mughals. Especially hate Aurangzeb for his fanatical mission to eradicate the Hindu Faith.

Although, I'd pick Jallal-ud-din Muhammad Akbar as a great leader. He was open minded to his subjects, and brought about great progress in the fields of art, literature, and the Empire was actually at harmony. He didnt see any rebellions in his time.  

About the Taj Mahal, it is really suspicious as to why there are several rooms, and even basements in a mausoleum. Its also shameful that India does not investigate completely what the truth behind that is.
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  Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2006 at 21:08
Welcome back darkness.

If they did i'm positive it would spark riots similar to those at Ayodhya, even if it is the truth.

The sad fact is, nobody will ever know. But thats true with history, it is written by those with power.
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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2006 at 21:13

I would select Babur Shah, as he was the founder of that mighty empire..

Shah Jahan's era was the time when empire culturally rised to its peak, but I believe Babur did a more important job with foundation and rise of the empire

We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2006 at 23:48

Gotta go with Babur, he was from Samarkand (a plus) did his own fighting to a great extent, and made the most out of a defeat (having to leave his home to the Uzbegs.  Sure I could go on about how Akbar is really the "best" Mughal ruler, but Babur is the most fascinating and of course ( a plus to me) the most "steppe-ish"

Still, Shah Jehan gets props, why? Because I went to visit some of his stuff.



Edited by Tobodai
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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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  Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2006 at 05:40
That picture doesn't work Tobadai
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2006 at 01:18

Conspiracy theories about the Taj Mahal aside, there is no eveidnce that it is built on a hindu temple. Admit it.

 

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  Quote Darkness1089 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2006 at 18:28
Thanx for the welcome Anujkhamer.

Actually - Babur didn't have a difficult time in attacking Delhi. The shameful thing is that he was invited to attack by a trecherous group of Afghan nobility in Delhi.

About the Taj Mahal, there is a significant amount of evidence to sujjest that the Taj Mahal was not a Mausoleum. I can't remember off the top of my head, but one interesting one is that the doors of the Taj, are supposed to be 300 years older than Shah Jahan. Then there is also evidence of actual construction of the Large monument.

Look at this site, it has a good amount of information on this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A5220
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2006 at 07:23

As for Babur, well he won the battles. You are right about people wanting him to enter Delhi though.

As for Oak's book

Using parts from other buildings was and is still common. To take an example the Pakistani Presidents house has some decorations removed from ancient monuments. IIRC decorations from the Lahore Fort, some bricks used from Rhotas fort and some facade from Taxila. The Supreme Court of Pakistan's Grand Chamber has a stone tablet of the Code of Hummurabi. The golden horses of the Haiga Sophia are now in Venice. It has been a tradition to use some planks (and now beams) from older ships with the same name, on new vessels. None of that means that any of the above are actually what they contain pieces off.

And the Taj Mahal is and has not been "sealed for since Shah jahans" time. The British stripped it of all of its jewls and they investigated every chamber. The sealed chambers are IIRC, usually the quaters of the caretakers or storage rooms. Don't beilieve me read Vince Smiths history of India.

Finally as per the name "Taj Mahal", Mahal means palace in Urdu/Persian/Hindi.Most of those other countries mentioned  speak Arabic, or Phusto. And as for the names, you must know that the official names of the rulers were  often regal names, not their own names. Shah Jahans own name was Khurrum. His step mothers name own (which I cannot recall now), was not Nur Jahen, either, infact earlier the official name had been, Nur Mahal; Light of the Palace, before it was changed ro Nur Jahan, Light of the world. Mum taz's name was alos different.

 

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