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Ancient Corduene
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joleofmichigan View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote joleofmichigan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ancient Corduene
    Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 02:08

Has there been any archaeological excavations done in Kurdistan, revealing any cities/towns/homes/tombs/etc. of ancient Corduene?  Or is the fact that there even was a kingdom there just indicated from sources and clues not found in the location where it supposedly was?

If archaeological evidence of an ancient Kurdish Corduene has been found, are there any artifacts (such as art, pottery, jewelry, etc.) that show a uniqueness in culture?

And, if there are archaeological traces from many different periods, is there anything of interest from 189-90 B.C. excavated in the area?  (This period was when the area was supposedly independent.)

Also, have there been any anthropological excavations in that area that could link (using DNA and bone structure) modern day Kurds to the ancient people of Corduene?

I just can't seem to find much history on this specific area from the ancient times.
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Maju View Drop Down
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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 20:25
Land of Aryan, Cyrus and the other Iranists will tell you much more in detail but I'm pretty sure that, despite the difficulties of the war, the Kurdistan has got plenty of archeology.

What's ancient Corduene? First tme I read about it.

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Posts: 937 		  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 20:44
(Maju: Cordyaeans and Carduchi are ancient historians names for Kurds.)

I have heard that Medzamon (or Metsamor) and Nakhicevan have very ancient remains. JR Baker says some think Kurds are related to Sumerians. There were the Hurrians &/or Subartu. I think the Alzi/Alshe/Lazica were near there?
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 13:46

[
What's ancient Corduene? First tme I read about it.
[/QUOTE]

 Apparently the Roman empire's name for kurdistan. First time I've seen it as well.   [Wikipedia]
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Posts: 1314 		  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2006 at 03:21
Corduene was an ancient district in ancient southern Armenia (Strabo, Claudius Ptolemy), south of Lake Van, which comprehends to the modern districts of Sirnak and southern Siirt in southerneastern Turkey.  It was also called Gordyene and more anciently Carduchia.  Carduchia, by the time of the march of the 10 thousand was independent of the Persian Empire, but eventually was conquered by the Armenians.  Earlier information on this district, from the Assyrian inscriptions referred to it as Kirhi but even earlier having a population known as the Kurti.  Hence, the Kurdish name may have been around since at least the 13th century BC.  The region seemed never to have been a unified one in most parts of its history even in periods of independence. 
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Posts: 921 		  Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2006 at 01:08
Sharrukin, I think it was reffered to the people of eastern Zagros mountains up to Kerman who are believed to have connection with the Kurds in the west. Since we know Baluchi language is a western Iranian language and is close to Kurdish we also have a shot in saying that Baluchis are Kurdish descendants as well.
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Posts: 921 		  Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2006 at 01:12
Ahh.. I got carried away. but still, even though I think you are right about the region in northern west of Iran, I believe Kurds have been further to east as well, up to Baluchistan at least.
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Posts: 1314 		  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2006 at 10:15
Well, historically, there were other peoples who had inhabited the Zagros region, such as (from north to south) the Lullubi, Guti, and Kassites.  Only in the eastern portion of the Taurus do we find the earliest name similar to "Kurd" and the name (from Kurti to Corduene) stood for the same region for at least 1300 years.
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Posts: 0 		  Quote joleofmichigan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2006 at 19:46
 So I guess nobody knows of any archaeological or anthropological excavations in this part [modern-day] Turkey?  It's really a shame, but maybe the Turkish government doesn't want anything to be uncovered about Corduene.  It'd be fascinating to me to see if they could find archaeological artifacts indicating of the society's culture there, especially anywhere from 800 to 66 B.C. before it would've had that much western influence.

Edited by joleofmichigan
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Posts: 1314 		  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2006 at 22:29

I would refer you to references regarding the Urartians, specifically to their archaeology.  They had possession of northern (if not the greater portion) of Corduene.  On linguistic grounds the region would have been Hurrian, as the Urartians spoke a Hurrian-related language.  Northern Corduene was known as Khubushkia, a Nairi land, and its capital of the same name was known as the capital of the Nairi.  Urartu likewise was a Nairi land, and its ruler styled himself "King of Nairi".  Its only a lead, but you may find something there.
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joleofmichigan View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote joleofmichigan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2006 at 20:54

Thanks for the tip Sharrukin.  I'll try to use it to (hopefully) get further along in my research of the archaeological history in the area.

I looked up a map of the area the Urartu kingdom, and it looks like just the right area and time period (up to 585 B.C.) to overlap wonderfully. 

Also, does recognize these "historical ruins from Semsour, in Northern Kurdistan"?  I found this and other interesting pictures on http://www.saradistribution.com/galeri.htm



Edited by joleofmichigan
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Seko View Drop Down
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Posts: 8595 		  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 21:58

Originally posted by joleofmichigan

So I guess nobody knows of any archaeological or anthropological excavations in this part [modern-day] Turkey?  It's really a shame, but maybe the Turkish government doesn't want anything to be uncovered about Corduene.  It'd be fascinating to me to see if they could find archaeological artifacts indicating of the society's culture there, especially anywhere from 800 to 66 B.C. before it would've had that much western influence.

There are over 150 archaeological excavations in Turkey every year. The following are a couple links that you may find handy.

http://www.reed.edu/~harmanso/resources.html

http://www.bilkent.edu.tr/~jast/Number4/Gates.html

The Turkish government has been building numerous dams in the southeast since the 1980's. This is to meant bring agriculture and improve the economy of the area. Some of the ancient sites (already discovered or yet to be discovered) have and may become flooded. The government has been working with international teams of archaeologists to help find and secure ancient artifacts. Turkish acadameia has created courses to preserve them (at the sites itself or in museums) and seek funding for such endeavors. One of the links contain a list of organizations that may guide you in your quest.
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