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Should british queen apologise for RAF bombings during 2 WW
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Poll Question: Should british queen apologise for RAF bombings during 2 WW
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Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Should british queen apologise for RAF bombings during 2 WW
    Posted: 02-Nov-2004 at 19:12
Queen Elizabeth Hiacynth Bucket (if you remember "Keeping Up Appearances" BBC series, she took 100 pieces of luggage, her own water and tea) is visiting Germany. Germans expected that she (in the name of GB) will apologise them for bombing civilians during 2WW but queen wont do it. What do you think about this visit, the bombing apology problem and about this one of the last relicts of feudalism in Europe.
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Posts: 196 		  Quote John Doe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2004 at 20:45
no apology!
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Posts: 6003 		  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2004 at 23:40
I don't see why she personaly should apologise, but i certainly think the UK could be a little more introspective of its past, especialy as far as WWII and Germany is concerned. With some people here, you could swear the war never ended.
Arrrgh!!"
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Posts: 2656 		  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2004 at 01:07
No apology, it was a war and the Brits couldn't afford to let "laws of war" get in the way of victory.
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Posts: 1174 		  Quote babyblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2004 at 06:50
     fair dinkum it's like saying Americans should apologise for nuking japan
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2004 at 08:54
I think they should, but it doesn't have to be the queen. Several German citizies have been needlessly bombed to pieces (even some generals admitted the bombing of Dresden was of no strategic importance). It was fighting Hitler with Hitler.
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2004 at 10:51
The Germans goaded the world to war, the Axis natiosn started large scale atrocities towards civilians.  They asked for it and got what they deserved.  WW2 was war to finish there was no room for such niceties.  If Germany wahts the Brits to apoligize they should first prostrate themselves and kowtow in repentence for the Blitz.
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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
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Posts: 233 		  Quote Abyssmal Fiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2004 at 16:01

I strongly disagree, Tobodai. Two Luftwaffe bombers lost course during a raid on British bases and accidently bombed London. That's officially what started the mass bombing, but atleast the Luftwaffe pilots had more heart. One of the bombers was going through a housing district (I assume), and saw a a giant red cross made of blood soaked blankets set out in front of a hospital. Rather than bomb the hospital, like everyone would assume he'd do, the pilot signaled that he saw it by titling his wings and kept going.

So don't generalize, Tobodai.

 

And on topic:
If the Queen of England has to apologize, I assume we'd have to apologize for annexing Austria, obliterating France (Again), stealing the only Czech defense they had (Mountains) in a treaty with Britian, and dozens of other war crimes.


Di! Ecce hora! Uxor mea me necabit!
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2004 at 19:15
no Germany started the civilian bombing not in Britain, but in POland.  Therefore it was an established tactic.  When fighting a fanatic nation where th eleadership has popular support , th eonly way to true win to completely crush th eopposistion.  Of course it would have been much more poetic had we let the Russians drop most of the bombs.
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Posts: 233 		  Quote Abyssmal Fiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2004 at 19:30
And who replied to it? No one. I'm not sure if it's true, it may or may not be, but as it stands, the entire American and British bombing raids were instigated in London.

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Posts: 6003 		  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2004 at 23:13
The Germans carpet bombed the centre of Rotterdam right at the begining too, a 'shock and awe' type tactic designed to push the Dutch into submission, worked too.
And lets not forget Guernica.

No, such bombing was a tactic already in the Lufwaffe's books, we don't need to pretend it was an accident, not that it gives the US/UK an excuse though, aside from strategic bombing it was seen as a tactic to lower morale, ironicly, in both Germany in the UK, it seems to have increases a resolve of defiance.
Arrrgh!!"
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2004 at 12:18

Originally posted by Tobodai

They asked for it and got what they deserved. 

yeah, maybe you want to go to Iran or Nk now and kill soem innocent civilians since they asked for it. i mean they're beign surpressed by an evil regime and can't do anythign against, they certainly have deserved to die....
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Posts: 1027 		  Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2004 at 09:35
Originally posted by Tobodai

no Germany started the civilian bombing not in Britain, but in POland. 


reminds me of in fawlty towers in "the germans" episode.

"You started it" - A German guest
"No i didn't, you that invaded poland!" - Basil Fawlty

lol


Edited by Anujkhamar
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Posts: 1027 		  Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2004 at 09:38
on a serious note, if the qween apoligises, then i do feel that germany should apoligise back, followed by an apology to the rest of the world.

but we all know that this is never going to happen.
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2004 at 09:46

The Allied bombings of civilian housing, Dresden being the most obvious example, had nothing to do with winning the war - it was pure revenge, simple as that. Don't make the mistake to compare it with the bombing of strategical targets or the nuclear bombs, which actually had the purpose to end the war.

On the original question, I voted no. The Germans did ask for it, after all.

Originally posted by Anujkhamar

on a serious note, if the qween apoligises, then i do feel that germany
should apoligise back, followed by an apology to the rest of the world.

but we all know that this is never going to happen.


Where have you been the last 60 years? The Germans have done nothing but continously apologizing...

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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2004 at 00:26
Originally posted by Temujin

Originally posted by Tobodai

They asked for it and got what they deserved. 

yeah, maybe you want to go to Iran or Nk now and kill soem innocent civilians since they asked for it. i mean they're beign surpressed by an evil regime and can't do anythign against, they certainly have deserved to die....

 

Those leaders werent on a ticket that had them elected by popular support!  That is the difference.  If someoen attacks me and has no regards for my saftey, then Im gonna hit back with everthing I ve got, I would be a fool not too.
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2004 at 12:07
Originally posted by Tobodai

Those leaders werent on a ticket that had them elected by popular support!  That is the difference.  If someoen attacks me and has no regards for my saftey, then Im gonna hit back with everthing I ve got, I would be a fool not too.

elected? are you dumb or somethng? NSDAP had not even 40% of the seats in the Reichstag, Hitlers rise to power was due to the arresting of Communists prior to the Chancelors elections and bribing or threatening of other senate members to elect him! maybe that's a fair election if your president is Bush, but not in a democratic country! left alone Hindenburg who appointed him and was a retard and nationalist himself, unlike what Americans (and unfortunately most Germans) seemingly believe...
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Posts: 474 		  Quote Cornellia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2004 at 12:16
er....that's not a fair election in the US ( a democratic country)....and say what you will, but Bush wasn't elected that way.
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Posts: 1803 		  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2004 at 13:37
No to apology. No to all apologies. Let the chapter be closed on a war that is over and gone. The world is of a different mentality now in a different century and countrymen cant be held accountable by its standard and a generation that is all but gone.
I say Germany has paid the price. The extortion of sorrys from leaders and money from companies such as Volkswagen is taking us backward. Onward!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2004 at 13:51
On the other hand, if Japan or a non-specified other country deny of try to justify the atrocities they've committed in the past, the whole world is upset. I don't see why the WW2 allies should not apology but others should.
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