Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Medieval European Image on the Orient

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Sino Defender View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 23-Jan-2006
Location: Hong Kong
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 413
  Quote Sino Defender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Medieval European Image on the Orient
    Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 17:15
What was the image of the Orient in Medieval Europe?
"Whoever messes with the heavenly middle kingdom, no matter how far s/he escapes, s/he is to be slaughtered"
Back to Top
Maju View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 18:14
In Medieval Europe there was surely no image of the Far East. Though among the few erudites there could be some idea of lands beyond India, they did not know much about them.

European Medieval "world maps" are typically of the T-O type:



It helps Jerusalem being in the Center of the world. As you can see in this extremely simlified case, the continents and the Biblical "races" are associated with an extreme naivety.



Still the T-O map approximated somehow reality... only somehow.

Here you can see a more elaborate map that still follows the T-O pattern anyhow:


East Asia has no room in these conceptions: it's just the extreme of India and "Scythia".

The following is a more scientific world map, based in Ptolemaic descriptions:



You can see that what is bathed by the Mediterranean Sea is rather well known, as it happens with SW Asia. India is very diffuse (note the gigantic Sri Lanka) and the Far East is in these maps only mentioned very vaguely: "India beyond the Ganges" (Assam and Burma?) ,"Aurea Chrsonesus" (Malay Peninsula), Sina (Indochina?), Serica (China?). See the detailed map here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/23/PtolemyWorldMa p.jpg

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
Back to Top
BigL View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 817
  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 18:22

Romans called chinese the Silk people, because thats were silk came from

Medieval despised asian people due to tartars and called them wild barbarian half horse half man

Back to Top
Scytho-Sarmatian View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 290
  Quote Scytho-Sarmatian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2006 at 02:39
I'm surprised everyone forgot about Marco Polo!  He was medieval, wasn't he?  Or maybe he's now considered an early renaissance man.  Anyway, read his book for more information.
Be brave and answer me.
Back to Top
Maju View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2006 at 13:03
Marco Polo is Medieval but of the late period, when the Dark Ages had vanished and Europe looked forward to modernity. Still may just didn't believe what he wrote - and even today his honesty is questioned.

See: Wikipedia: Marco Polo and derived hyperlinks.

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
Back to Top
Sino Defender View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 23-Jan-2006
Location: Hong Kong
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 413
  Quote Sino Defender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2006 at 14:31

Sina is another name for China. Not indochina.

Another question: why is Vietnam called Indochina?

"Whoever messes with the heavenly middle kingdom, no matter how far s/he escapes, s/he is to be slaughtered"
Back to Top
Maju View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2006 at 15:31
Originally posted by Sino Defender

Sina is another name for China. Not indochina.

You're probably right but it is misplaced. Serica sounds like "the country of silk" or something, just east of Scythia (Central Asia / West Siberia)


Another question: why is Vietnam called Indochina?



Not just Vietnam but all (continental?) SE Asia used to be called Indochina, considered to be both geographically and culturally intermediate between China and India. The French colonial bloc in the area was called French Indochina and therefore sometimes Indochina seems applied only to the French portion of it.

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2012 at 07:32
China was known as Cathay in medieval times. It is thought Marco Polo brought the recipe for noodles back to Italy and popularised spaghetti
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2012 at 07:30
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Snafu View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 14-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 72
  Quote Snafu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2012 at 18:15
Before the Mongol empire brought east and west into direct contact, all Europeans knew about the far east was what middle eastern merchants told them. And by the time those stories filtered down to the common folk they were more like legends and fairy tales. There were stories of dog-headed men (maybe influenced by the look of a steppe nomad's cap, with long floppy ear-flaps), weird humanoid creatures with faces on their chests and backwards facing feet, Amazons, Prester John the Christian king of the far east, etc.  Even for the worldliest and most sophisticated Europeans, the world east of the Middle East might as well have been another planet. 

 
Back to Top
TITAN_ View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 21-Jun-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 480
  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2012 at 06:00
East and West first met each other in the 4th century BC, in a massive scale.... 
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 08:45

Medieval people also believed there was a one-legged giant called Sciapod who used his massive foot as a sun shade
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 10:44
Originally posted by Snafu

Before the Mongol empire brought east and west into direct contact, all Europeans knew about the far east was what middle eastern merchants told them. And by the time those stories filtered down to the common folk they were more like legends and fairy tales. There were stories of dog-headed men (maybe influenced by the look of a steppe nomad's cap, with long floppy ear-flaps), weird humanoid creatures with faces on their chests and backwards facing feet, Amazons, Prester John the Christian king of the far east, etc.  Even for the worldliest and most sophisticated Europeans, the world east of the Middle East might as well have been another planet. 

 

If the dog-headed men were Tatars in floppy caps, what's the story behind the headless men with faces on their chests?
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.096 seconds.