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Mongol defeats

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  Quote TJK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mongol defeats
    Posted: 08-Jan-2005 at 03:29

Golden Horde was an independent Khanate around Crimea

around Crimea ?

 

only thing that it has in common with Mongol empire is that empire provided a venue for Tartar migration.

No, Golden Horde was one of the descedent of Mongol Empire and the Tatars in Golden Horde have nothing to do with previous monglian tribe which have the same name. 

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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2005 at 02:11

6 raids into india were defeated too

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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jul-2005 at 00:02
Originally posted by mongke

These defeats tend to happen in nonsteppe areas(duh!). As I recall the mameluks


realized that the mongols did not have a baggage train and they lived off the pastures to feed their horses. The mameluks engaged in a scorched earth policy in syria. As a consequence the mongols were unable to get back into syria after their initial defeats eventhough they did have some success later on. A joint christian-mongol alliance would have been a nightmare scenario for the mameluks.



People often quote Ayn Jalut as a Mongol defeat and proof of the Mameluke fighting skills, but they forget that the Mameluke force outnumbered the Mongols by about 5 to 1; and that the Mongol force didn't even have a majority of its combattants being Mongol. Most of them were Turks.
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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 18:35

yea ain jalut really show how strong the mongols were becasue the mamelukes almost lost the battle when mongols charged.the battle of Homs 1281 was a more closer affair

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  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 20:14
It is truly a shame that the Mongols are portrayed by most programs about them as being truly invincible. I was watching the History Channel and every historian said that they never lost a battle.


Edited by Emperor Barbarossa

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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 20:20
Originally posted by Decebal

Originally posted by mongke

These defeats tend to happen in nonsteppe areas(duh!). As I recall the mameluks


realized that the mongols did not have a baggage train and they lived off the pastures to feed their horses. The mameluks engaged in a scorched earth policy in syria. As a consequence the mongols were unable to get back into syria after their initial defeats eventhough they did have some success later on. A joint christian-mongol alliance would have been a nightmare scenario for the mameluks.



People often quote Ayn Jalut as a Mongol defeat and proof of the Mameluke fighting skills, but they forget that the Mameluke force outnumbered the Mongols by about 5 to 1; and that the Mongol force didn't even have a majority of its combattants being Mongol. Most of them were Turks.


weren't the mameluke's Mongols themselves??
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  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2005 at 11:40
Well, vulkan02, you are half right. The mamelukes were also Saraceans. Many of the Saraceans in the crusades fought against the French in Egypt. Syrian mamelukes repulsed both a Mongolian invasion of Syria as Decebal wrote. One Mamaluke dynasty, the Bahri consisted of Mongols and Turks. Some Mamelukes were later incorporated into Napoleon's army and played a role in Austerlitz. After that, they gained their own regimental standard.

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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2005 at 21:01
yea ain jalut really show how strong the mongols were becasue the mamelukes almost lost the battle when mongols charged.the battle of Homs 1281 was a more closer affair


And the excuse for the Mongols' losing at Homs is that they misinterpred the commander's personal withdrawal from battle as a retreat.
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  Quote The Guardian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2005 at 21:50
Originally posted by BigL

yea ain jalut really show how strong the mongols were becasue the mamelukes almost lost the battle when mongols charged

That did not happen.What happened was that their heavy cavalary destroyed and went through the left flank.THen baybars made the whole army face right.Bad for the mongols

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  Quote The Guardian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2005 at 21:51

Originally posted by THemOngolians

the only thing that stands out is the storm that hit the fleet sailing to japan where it was like the largest ever assembled and most of it got destroyed

and their horses drowned.Lucky japos.....

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  Quote ITAPEVI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2005 at 10:01
Originally posted by The Guardian

Originally posted by THemOngolians

the only thing that stands out is the storm that hit the fleet sailing to japan where it was like the largest ever assembled and most of it got destroyed

and their horses drowned.Lucky japos.....

This is not a cabaret forum but a forum for serious discussion. If you think you must use this kind of childish language go to another forum. Such posts, with such a language in such manner you showed above are not appreciated here be it pro or contra something.
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  Quote Conan the destroyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2005 at 18:32

t'sai shih, Mongols defeated by Ming dynasty

Ting-hsi, Mongols defeated by Ming dynasty

Lake buyur, Mongols defeated by Ming dynasty

A few more defeats that I can't be bothered to mention.

 

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  Quote Scytho-Sarmatian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2005 at 05:12
Originally posted by ITAPEVI

Originally posted by The Guardian

Originally posted by THemOngolians

the only thing that stands out is the storm that hit the fleet sailing to japan where it was like the largest ever assembled and most of it got destroyed

and their horses drowned.Lucky japos.....

This is not a cabaret forum but a forum for serious discussion. If you think you must use this kind of childish language go to another forum. Such posts, with such a language in such manner you showed above are not appreciated here be it pro or contra something.

What's a "cabaret forum?"  It reminds me of that song "come to the cabaret, old chum." Anyway, the Mongols are always a fascinating subject for me, and I welcome any comments concerning them.  I don't think the poster meant his comment to be offensive, although he could have used a better choice of language.



Edited by Scytho-Sarmatian
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  Quote realceylons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2006 at 16:28

-The reason for the Mongols were regarded as invincible-

The Mongols adapted and applied the arms and tactics from the defeated.

Excellent horsemanship and archery (said they could shoot five arrows at once and hit the targets 100%).

Mobility. Many Mongol soldiers carried 3~5 horses both for food and as a ride. They could travel as fast as tanks in the WWII.

Each soldier carried five or more melee weapons with them.

They were always composed of fewer than 100,000 so as to allow flexibility in tactical change. Upon conquering Khwarazmian empire, Genghis Khan led his army himself into confront the main army, while his most trusted generals, Subetai and Jebe conquered other cities in proximity while his son Chagatai invaded from the northwest to make surprising rear attack. Genghis Khan also noted to track down defeated enemy monarchs until they were captured or killed.   

Best soldiers were picked during Kuriltai. The resulting army was very well-disciplined. Rewards and gains were main factor for motivation for the soldiers, however, fleeing in the middle of battle was prohibited and killed on sight. 

Genghis Khan picked the best generals himself. They were trusted and given right to command and make strategy by themselves - Subetei and Jebe risked into Caucasus and Ukraine as they were tracking down the fleeing monarch of the Khwarazmies. Muhkali was entrusted to conquer Jin while Genghis Khan was away.

Those cities that resisted the most was devastated after surrender or conquest. They sacked cities and massacred inhabitants of those cities to keep resistence from rising up and to instill fear to those others yet to be conquered.

Genghis Khan tried to keep the Mongols away from sedentary life as to keep the traditional warfaring custom from dieing out lest their achievement would be in vain as it happened 120 years later.

-Mongol unification-

Mongol camp gets devasted by Merkits by a surprise attack when Temuchin alone was invited to his ally Tooril Khan's camp.

Mongol under Temuchin tries to avenge the Merrkits in the next few weeks, but gets outnumbered and flees. 

Mongol without Temuchin gets defeated by Jamuhka, once his blood brother.

-Muhkali's campaign in Jin China- 

Kaifeng shoots shells during the siege by the Mongols. Mongol flees.

Jin's imperial guard under Wan-nan with 5000 men crushes the besieging Mongols in Beizing.

 -Geghis Khan's campaign in the West-

Genghis Khan gets ambushed by the elephant-ridden Gohrs in the northern India when tracking the fleeing Khwarazmian monarch. Genghis Khan turns back after sacking the capital Delhi.

-Il Khanate-

Mameluks under Baitur defeats the nominal Mongol army in defence comprised of defeated Turks and Saracens near Damascus.

Timurlane overthrows Il Khanate.

-Wuan (China) under Kublai Khan-

Numerous defeats by the Sungs.

Koreans make initial defence successful against the Mongols.

Naval attack on Japanese shores makes initial success with land troops on move attacking Dajaiu. The supporting force composed of Sung Chinses and Mongol army from southern China, Im-nan gets shipwrecked with what Japanese calls "Kamikaze," the wind of God. The fleets from Korea also gets shipwrecked few days later. Most of the survivors were killed on sight.  

Second Japanese invasion meets much worse resistence from Japanese as they were preparing to meet the oncoming Mongols on the shores and another kamikaze devastes the fleets.  

Vietnam invasion fails as the Annamese and Khmer force made well use of elephants and fire in the jungle against the horse-ridden Mongols.

Pagan force in Burma successfully resists against the Mongols after their capital gets burnt down.

Ming overthrows Mongol dominance in China.

-Golden Horde (Russian division)-

Polish and German victory in Poland.

Timur the Lame defeats the Golden horde near Caucasus.

Moskivans defeats the Golden horde in a battle.

Tatars sack Golden horde's capital, Sarai.

Moscow overthrows Mongol dominance in Russia. 

-Kipchak Khanate-

Timurlane demolishes the Kichak Khanate and wanes it pretty much.

 



Edited by realceylons
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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2006 at 21:40

to add

1221 Parwan ,Khwareziam empire defeat mongols army

1223 Zhugili hills Bulgar defeat Subedei

3 mameluke vicotries over Ilh khanids Ain jaluit,Homs 1281.a mountain battle.,plus numerous ilh khanid raid into india defeated

Minor russian victory in the 1230s campaign in russia.

Genghis khan defeated by indians ? Where did u get this from please source this information.

Polish and German victory in Poland. ???when...

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