Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Evrenosgazi
Consul
Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 379
|
Topic: kurdish population Map Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 12:47 |
M y friends dont worry about Kurds, they are happy in Turkey
We are equal
All of the cities is our cities. Kurds live in Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir....Only a minority dont like this. We fight together in wars
The cities like Elazg, Malatya, Erzurum, Gaziantep are yhe most nationalist cities. For example Edirne is social democrat, but Elazg is nationalist. I say that east doesnt mean Kurd. We are all sunni muslims
Let us talk about Kurds in Iran, In Iran kurds are sunni, but persians are sh*te , let us discuss
|
|
The Hidden Face
Chieftain
Ustad-i Azam
Joined: 16-Jul-2005
Location: Mexico
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1379
|
Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 13:11 |
chargemaster friend, I have already explained what 'wrongs' on the maps are. However, okay, here is a little map to you.
http://img416.imageshack.us/img416/7412/map29uj.jpg
zagros edit: map was too big, i put link in instead.
Edited by Zagros
|
|
Cent
Chieftain
Joined: 20-Jun-2005
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1013
|
Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 13:53 |
"And if most of these maps are propaganda, i think that this is a good reason for the turk-users to find(or to make) and to post other maps, who are showing the truth about the ethnic distribution of the kurds..."
Yes, many are propaganda maps, but who says that Turks will give you the truth about the ethnic distribution of the Kurds?
|
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
|
|
Seko
Emperor
Spammer
Joined: 01-Sep-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8595
|
Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 14:04 |
And vica versa.
Does any one know how many Kurdish Turkish citizens live in Istanbul? There seems to have been a large influx in the last decade.
|
|
Cent
Chieftain
Joined: 20-Jun-2005
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1013
|
Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 14:38 |
Seko, of course.
|
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
|
|
The Chargemaster
Chieftain
Kishokan
Joined: 02-Feb-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1066
|
Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 14:38 |
chargemaster friend, I have already explained what 'wrongs' on the maps are. However, okay, here is a little map to you. |
Thanks, TURK! That`s the thing i am talking about !
I think, you are skilful with the image-editing software. Good for you! Mersi, tesekurederim!
Edited by The Chargemaster
|
|
The Chargemaster
Chieftain
Kishokan
Joined: 02-Feb-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1066
|
Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 14:59 |
...but who says that Turks will give you the truth about the ethnic distribution of the Kurds? |
Well, i think it will be good if the other users post maps too. Every map is interesting, neverheless/notwithstanding that some maps are more propaganda than others.
I think that the truth can be born in the dispute, but the dispute is more visual and more interesting with maps.
|
|
Zagros
Emperor
Suspended
Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
|
Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 15:37 |
Originally posted by Evrenosgazi
M y friends dont worry about Kurds, they are happy in Turkey
We are equal
All of the cities is our cities. Kurds live in Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir....Only a minority dont like this. We fight together in wars
The cities like Elazg, Malatya, Erzurum, Gaziantep are yhe most nationalist cities. For example Edirne is social democrat, but Elazg is nationalist. I say that east doesnt mean Kurd. We are all sunni muslims
Let us talk about Kurds in Iran, In Iran kurds are sunni, but persians are sh*te , let us discuss
|
Half of Iran's Kurds are shiite too, and there is no organisation as PKK running wild in the mountains.
|
|
mamikon
Sultan
Joined: 16-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2200
|
Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 16:52 |
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/map_sites/country_sites.html
make a search for Kurdistan, 3 links should show up, with maps
Edited by mamikon
|
|
Beylerbeyi
Chieftain
Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Cuba
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1355
|
Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 18:06 |
Yes, many are propaganda maps, but who says that Turks will give you the truth about the ethnic distribution of the Kurds? |
In fact, nobody knows the truth about Kurds in Turkey. Because the census don't record ethnicity. All percentages of Kurds are estimates, and all maps should be taken with a pinch of salt.
These maps, were obviously modified according to who produced them. In Turkey, it is usually said that 'East of Euphrates' is where the Kurds live, I think it is quite ok as a rule of thumb, many maps agree with this as well.
You can forget about the ones which show Kurdish majorities in the west, or near Iskenderun. The latter comes from Kurdish separatists wanting access to the sea for their landlocked area.
|
|
Iranian41ife
Arch Duke
Joined: 24-Dec-2005
Location: Tajikista
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1832
|
Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 18:27 |
Originally posted by Evrenosgazi
Let us talk about Kurds in Iran, In Iran kurds are sunni, but persians are sh*te , let us discuss |
there are both sunni and shiite kurds in iran.
in iran kurds are allowed to speak their language and learn it.
they are allowed to keep their traditions and customs.
they are allowed to call themsevles kurds.
we talk about turkey for a reason, the only country to have had a major war with the kurds.
|
"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
|
|
erci
Chieftain
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1426
|
Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 19:41 |
not with all Kurds! you make it sound as we are in a total war with Kurds.We had a war with Kurdish terorists not Kurds.most of the terorrists in the Middle East are Arabs in origin, do you think they represent the common Arabs?
a real map of Kurds should include Istanbul as well
|
|
Iranian41ife
Arch Duke
Joined: 24-Dec-2005
Location: Tajikista
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1832
|
Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 19:44 |
Originally posted by erci
not with all Kurds! you make it sound as we are in a total war with Kurds.We had a war with Kurdish terorists not Kurds.most of the terorrists in the Middle East are Arabs in origin, do you think they represent the common Arabs?
a real map of Kurds should include Istanbul as well
|
ok, if you were fighting just a terrorist organisation, why did the war take decades and cost the lives of 30,000 people? that sounds like a civil war to me. the terrorist group obviously had support among the majority of kurds for that to happen.
|
"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
|
|
Leonidas
Tsar
Joined: 01-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4613
|
Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 20:16 |
Its not black and white, i was reading an article that had two brothers fighting on both sides. One was a turkish patriot in the army the other a PKK fighter. From what i can gather not all kurds support turkey but many have, there is degrees of 'turkishness' and religion that helps define the divide amongst the kurds. As opposed to simply kurds vs turks. Correct me if i am wrong but alawi kurds are pro governement if that can be used as an example.
Simply the divison is amongst the kurds, though i wouldnt say that the splittists are just small minority , and i do think its growing number
This arguement that kurds now live in the turkish cities in the western part are therefore integrated is also a little misleading. There is a internal refugee problem that is quite large, so i would temper that veiw. Many kurds are moving out of south east becuase of the security situation (blamed internationally on both the PKK and the army) and the lack of investment/ opportunity.
Edited by Leonidas
|
|
|
erci
Chieftain
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1426
|
Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 20:27 |
Originally posted by prsn41ife
ok, if you were fighting just a terrorist organisation, why did the war take decades and cost the lives of 30,000 people? that sounds like a civil war to me. the terrorist group obviously had support among the majority of kurds for that to happen. |
not quite.It's not easy to win over a guerilla war.No country has ever acsomplished that yet, including Turkey, tho we did prove that they can not win this by using guns or bomb attacks.did you know more than half of that 30.000 lifes they took away were Kurdish, they didn't spare anyone. You don't need support from people to form terorrist organizations.you just need money, that simple.How did they find the money? above is a cypriot passport of leader of the Kurdish terorrists provided by Greeks.He was carrying it when he was captured by Turkish Intelligence in Kenya.He is the guy who ordered death of 30.000 Turkish citizens. Syria as well supported Kurdish terrorists against Turkey.Syria was the main base of Terorist Kurds, the largest camps were formed in Syria.Main reason for them to support terorist kurds was the disputes we had over use of waters and Hatay/Iskenderun in past. And Iran.Iranians started to help PKK when Kurds started loose power.They gave them the guns free of charge.Two reasons why they supported pkk was, Turkey's influence in the Middle East and Turkey's secular government. you may believe whatever you want but don't believe everything what your and western media say.Even if %10 of the Turkish citizen Kurds wanted to support terrorist kurds, things would get even worse for Turkey.It is Turkey's stand point and why Pkk lost the war.
|
|
Zagros
Emperor
Suspended
Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
|
Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 07:00 |
And Iran.Iranians started to help PKK when Kurds started loose power.They gave them the guns free of charge.Two reasons why they supported pkk was, Turkey's influence in the Middle East and Turkey's secular government. |
You're gonna have to back that up with some supporting evidence because PKK (Pezhak) also launch attacks against Iran. Iran helped KDP in Iraq when they had a civil war with the other group, Saddam helped the other side, this was in the mid 90s.
|
|
Evrenosgazi
Consul
Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 379
|
Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 07:26 |
Originally posted by prsn41ife
Originally posted by erci
not with all Kurds! you make it sound as we are in a total war with Kurds.We had a war with Kurdish terorists not Kurds.most of the terorrists in the Middle East are Arabs in origin, do you think they represent the common Arabs?
a real map of Kurds should include Istanbul as well
|
ok, if you were fighting just a terrorist organisation, why did the war take decades and cost the lives of 30,000 people? that sounds like a civil war to me. the terrorist group obviously had support among the majority of kurds for that to happen.
|
prsn41life
That wasnt a civil war, in 15 years 30000 people died. You know that there is millions of Kurds in Turkey. If it was a civil war I think in 15 years much more people would be killed. You have also millions of Kurds in your country. Your Iran Islam Republic is a young republic. A new Kurdish state is forming in Iraq. I think you should becareful to. The maps also include Iranian soil.This isnt only our problem, I think our common problem. Blaming Turkey isnt fair, we know that terrorism in Turkey is backed by our neighbours. USA is know in Iraq maybe they will support terrorists in your country to. I think Iran must be very careful.
|
|
Cent
Chieftain
Joined: 20-Jun-2005
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1013
|
Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 08:06 |
First of all, PKK is using terrorist methods, but so is the Turkish state. PKK is the repons to the lame Turkish poltics that have been used in Turkey since the forming of the State, just look at their laws, some are so stupid.
Secondly, many Kurdish nationalist do not support terrorist methods.
|
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
|
|
Evrenosgazi
Consul
Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 379
|
Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 10:51 |
I live in Turkey,I am a doctor and we have lot of patients of Kurdish origin, we never think that their nationality, we do best for their health. Last I had a patient from Hakkari who`s age was 75 with bladder cancer and he really liked me, because he knows that I dont care his nationality and I am doing my best.Turks and Kurds lived for 1000 years , we have common properties and traditions. In Turkey nationality is weak Cent, nobody can understand who is kurd or turk. Nobody cares this. But if some people who is trying to give harm to the republic of Turkey, kurd or turk, response comes. We are all friends, there is lot of mine Kurd doctor friends, and we are fine. Turkish state isnt a terrorist state as you said. We are the one of the democratic states in Middle East. You must admit that Turkey is a unitary state. This isnt against kurds
|
|
Cent
Chieftain
Joined: 20-Jun-2005
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1013
|
Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 11:22 |
So your oppressing laws against minorities are democratic?
Don't compare Turkey with Middle Eastern countries, then of course it's a democracy, but if you compare it with the West, then it's another story.
|
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
|
|