The Jewish people

Originally posted by Gyadu So what are the views of Rabbi's and Jews on conversion today.Halevi could you give a brief history of conversion in Judaism.I know it's a difficult task.It would be enough if you throw some light on different views on conversion among the clergy and common followers of Judaism in the prsent context.

Good question.   Im hardly qualified to answer this, but ill give it a quick go.

First of all, there isnt really a distinction between clergy and commoners in Rabbincal (post-roman explusion) Judaism.   The ones who are simply really well versed in religion could count as clergy, and vice versa..... that being said, communities / synagogues tend to revolve around the opinions of one 'rabbi', who is kind of like both an advice giver and a service-leader. You go to school for that sort of thing, if you want to be taken seriously.

Now... in terms of conversion... until the past two ( ? ) or so centuries, all Jews could have been considered 'orthodox' in the sense that, there were no widely accepted alternative systems to practicing the religion, apart from what had been handed down generation to generation from old times, with the strict rules, etc.

There were many different *branches* of orthodoxy, mainly focussing around the practices and interpretations of specific learned Rabbis ..... the 'Hassids',  for instance, the jews with the big black hats, funny white socks, beards, and twirly things comgin down from their sideburns... are *one small sect of orthodoxy*, who follow the slightly mystical teachings of one or two Rabbis from a few hundred years ago. Their werid clothing is an identity thing - it shows which group they belong to - like how different headgear, etc can differentaite diff groups in the Muslim world and South Asia.

There was - and still is - another big divide *amongst* orthodox Judaism: the Sephardic tradition, and the Ashkenazic tradition.... each of these groups has slightly (very slightly) different interpretations of the Jewish law, as they were seperated from each other early on, and developed in Spain/the Mediterranean and Central Europe, respectively.

There are other groups (Italkim, Persian/Iraqi Jews, Indian Jews, etc) that also have slightly diff interpretations due to their own communal isolation. However, the commonalities far far outweight the differneces. The main differnece is the holiday cuisine, whcih makes Israel a wonderfully diverse culinary experience, btw ; )

That being said - as far as I know - *all* these groups followed (until recently) strict conversion laws that were actually meant to discourage outsiders from joining the tight-knit-ethno-religious country-club known as Judaism. This is because the religion is designed specifically for a tribal group, and does not have universal applicatoin (it has a 'live and let live' approach to outsiders, but does not try to bring them in to the clique)... it is *not*, in its most common rabbinc state, a prosyelitizing religion. 

In this sense, it is similar to the Druze religion, which was a Fatamid-era offshoot of Ismaili Islam, but soon closed its doors to outsiders after it began to face persecution. It is now a totally closed endogamic religious-family group.

*If* someone is just dying to convert to Judaism - usually so they can marry someone Jewish (because a 'good jew', practicing endogamy as he or she 'should', would never marry somone outside of the 'tribe') .... there are a series of very gruelling steps to go through in order to be 'accepted' in the Jewish community, so their children can grow up 'Jewish' ....

For men this includes getting circumsized (regardless of age) as well as hours and hours of intense study, a Bar Mitzvah (religious coming of age ceremony usually done at 13 years), etc.  

For women, its mostly hours and hours of intense study.

It is a discouraging process, not an encouraging one.

All that being said, in recent years (past two hundred years, max, id say), 'softer' versions of Judaism have developed.    These include the "Reform" and "Conservative" movements.... they are strictly European-born movements, which essentially aim to 'secularize' Jewish practice, so Jews could more comfortably integrate into their post-Enlightenment western host countries.

They generally include a laxing of all the strict rules... for instance, in reform synagogues, men and women can sit together... women dont have to cover their heads...... some schools even allow women to become rabbis! (gasp!)    Many if not most reform Jews no longer adhere to the kashrut laws, described above....... at least when eating out ; )

Along with this softening, has come a softening on the conversion laws. Because of hard-dying ethnocentrism, the practice of endogamy is still highly valued. "Marrying out" still carries a stigma... and even "reform" Jewish parents generally want their kids to "marry Jewish" ........   however, it is now a bit easier (less studying / no 'real' circumcision) to convert, making mixed marriages - that are still "Jewish-Jewish" on paper, much more common.

The orthodox school sneer at this 'perversion', and see it, literally, as a bastardization and dilution of the ethno-religious community.

Orthox rabbis will simply not recognize conversions/marriages not performed according to the strict religious law. Reformers and conservatives are a bunch of hedonistic goofballs, messing everything up, in their eyes.

Family law in Israel, interstingly, is still largely administered by the orthdox establishments (both ashkenazi and sephardi), and thus many Israeli secular/mixed 'jewish' couples have to go get married in Cyprus, or eslewhere, in order to have their marraiges recogncized by the state.

Does this help?









Edited by Halevi

Hi Halevi what is the view about Bnei Menashe Jews of India in the Jew community of Canada.Do they accept them as Jews.I'd like to know your personal opinion on this matter too,incase the question isn't too personal.